Hi Chapos throwaway for obvious reasons.
I’ve managed to buy an apartment, two bedrooms. I live in it, but I rent the other room out. Is it unethical for me to hide that I’m the owner?
I don’t really lie-lie, like if I’m asked straight up I’ll answer, but I’ll avoid it if possible.
It’s mostly because it creates an odd power dynamic and I’d rather have a flatmate than a tenant if that makes sense.
Reason I bought is I don’t want to deal with landlords, obviously.
Do I get the wall?
Yeah, it’s unethical. There is a power imbalance and hiding that puts them at a disavantage through subterfuge.
Are you renting at cost? Do you shoulder all the costs of maintenance and upkeep?
Because the question here is not ownership, it’s are you a landlord or a building manager?
At cost, if we include the interest accruing to the bank as a cost.
Maintenance/upkeep etc is my responsibility of course. Utilities split.
I won’t say everything’s to my liking, but I’ll sink spare cash into improvements.
if we include the interest accruing to the bank as a cost.
I do not. What proportion of the total loan repayment is this person paying and why are they not being offered an ownership share equal to that?
Yes.
You’re going to be living with this person, do you want the foundation of the relationship to be a lie? They’ll probably figure it out eventually anyway.
I figure that’s preferable to telling them outright, because it gives a chance for a relationship to form first.
No because then they won’t be able to trust you, because you lied about the nature of the relationship
Yeah, it’s a bit baffling that OP doesn’t see the importance of being upfront about stuff like this.
I hope OP is just young, and this is simply a lack of maturity.
Yeah, this sort of view on lying:
Also just to be clear I don’t outright lie, but I don’t tell unless I’m explicitly asked.
Denotes a manipulative person or someone with very little interpersonal experience.
Just remember to rush into the telephone booth to remove your glasses when changing into landlord guy. And have ready an excuse why tenant guy is never onsite when landlord guy comes around.
You’re talking about lying to your tenants that you’re the landlord?
“Oh better pay your rent because the real estate company is chasing me” what a fucking thing to suggest
You telling the truth or lying about being the landlord doesn’t create the odd power dynamic - the power dynamic comes from them having to give you money in order to have shelter. You can’t avoid it.
First sign of landlord brain - I should lie to my tenants so I feel better about the power relationship
I want to be able to ask my flatmate to not put dishes in the sink without it being a landlord/tenant dynamic.
It’s not the money/shelter trade that bugs me. It’s the lick-my-ass/or-be-homeless setup that I don’t like.
Also just to be clear I don’t outright lie, but I don’t tell unless I’m explicitly asked.
Then you should communicate that with the people there, because surely the relationship is going to be pretty fucked if they find out you’re the owner?
I don’t know the cohort of people renting the room but I would think I’d find out pretty quickly and I think it would be hard to not disclose without lying. However I do a title search before renting so maybe I’m not the best example.
If you don’t like the “lick-my-ass/or-be-homeless setup”, try not being a landlord.
I’m such a smol bean landlord, pwease forgive me hexbear, I just have to exploit another human being for my own financial gain but it gives me a sad uwu
I think it’s worse because the landlord is going to be unwittingly surveilling the tenant whenever they’re there. Like he can just boot them if they do something he doesn’t enjoy, whereas there’s a lot more leeway (rightly and wrongly) with a roommate that you can’t just kick out.
Exactly. That’s not a good vibe, and no amount of ‘just trust me bro’ gets rid of it. (Especially if you proactively bring it up “just so you know, I can make you homeless but dw”.)
I don’t wanna deal with landlords either.
I bought such a tiny eensy weensy property and now I have to use it to exploit someone. Otherwise someone will exploit me. I’m so tiny and smol I can’t handle the exploitation that you all do, that’s why I have to exploit you all. Pwease, no more bad feelings, thank you!
Thank you for putting my feelings into words
I like what Hexboare said:
First sign of landlord brain - I should lie to my tenants so I feel better about the power relationship
Like others pointed out the power dynamic is there regardless. By obscuring the full details you are using the dynamic to your advantage, preventing the other tenant from making fully informed decisions about the situation.
The power dynamic IS the fact that you and you alone have a choice in how this relationship works (landlord/tenant vs flatmate/flatmate). Wild that after “managing” to own property you would start using your power to twist relationships to your own end. Who would have guessed a landlord would be power tripping and shady
OBVIOUSLY DO NOT HIDE IT fwiw my experience with 1 or 2 house landlords has been positive - they at least cared about keeping the property habitable, and tbh we’re all doing what we can to get along in this hellscape. ‘Proffessional’ landlords are another matter, however, and deserve to be minecrafted
Completely disregarding the ethical stuff of just being a landlord no matter how smol, don’t fucking hide the fact that you own the apartment. That’s a classic dick move if there has ever been one.
Frankly I don’t know how one would even think it’s okay to consider hiding it, but since I can’t stop you I can only tell you that if you do decide to hide it you’re a fucking asshole and you can go fuck yourself.
When do I have to declare it? In the ad? At the viewing? When it could fit into a conversation? When they ask about it directly?
Right now I’ve decided on that last one.
generally i think the correct time is in the ad (“i am renting a room in my flat for co habitation”)
Cool that you’ve decided to be a fucking asshole now go fuck yourself
idk. a friend of mine is trying to buy a house soon and he, i, and another friend will be splitting the mortage costs 3 ways. it will be his house at the end of it and he does feel pretty bad about that, but also we’ll be paying less to him than we would otherwise renting anywhere else, so yes technically it is landlording and technically we are getting less than him, but also we’re better off living with him than we would be otherwise so no one’s getting hurt. i feel like situations like this are relatively normal and chill ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
i would say probably let the other person know tho. if only because it probably will come out eventually just for practical reasons, and you’ll look kind of dickish for hiding that. sure, you know you have good intentions, but your roommate doesn’t
I would be honest about owning the property from the get go. Because if it ever came out that you’re the owner (and it most certainly will) that would create a very awkward situation.
In my eyes so long as you are paying for the mortgage/house loan, and not passing on passing on the burden that the tenant won’t gain from then your ethically in the clear.
As for what the tenant would pay, I see no reason not to go 50:50 on the bills with the tenant, and potentially getting them contributing to a ground rent (not sure if that’s a thing outside of the UK, but it’s basically where the owner of an apartment pays the owner of the building to help with upkeep).
You might even consider a situation where you agree a monthly surplus to set aside in the event of repairs that may need to be done, agreeing that any money they put in is returned to them as the end of their tenancy if no such repairs were needed.
At the end of the day if you have a tenant you shouldn’t be extracting any value from them for your own benefit, beyond the obvious benefit of sharing living expenses.
If anyone disagrees with me I’d really love to hear it.
I think there’s a way to be this kind of micro landlord in an ethical way, but it’s really tricky. Rent tied to expenses with a small amount of pay to you for the actual time spent managing it, and money into an repair/emergency fund. You should also consider the equity gained if it’s financed. I’ve known landlords that say, “I’m barely making any money”, ignoring the fact that they’ll own the property outright at the end of the mortgage.
The fact that it makes you more comfortable to hide the fact that you are the landlord makes me think the arrangement you’re considering isn’t fair. We’re living under capitalism, so do what you gotta do, but if you’re going to exploit someone have the decency to not act like you’re in it together with them.
You should also consider the equity gained if it’s financed. I’ve known landlords that say, “I’m barely making any money”, ignoring the fact that they’ll own the property outright at the end of the mortgage.
Yeah this is valid. At current interest rates, and assuming average capital growth, and accounting for the benefit of my own room, I’m pretty much breaking even, just doing napkin math and not accounting for tax. (If interest rates drop then I’ll be sitting prettier.)
The way I see it is, I’m doing this so I don’t have to deal with landlords. I’m not able to live rent free, nor can I share that. But I can share the experience of being landlord free. (Sort of.)
I don’t think you should hide it, and I think the dynamic itself really depends on whether the “rent” here is substantially more than your share.
You don’t have a flatmate if you’re charging that flatmate more than your own costs, that’s not mutual housesharing, it’s about profit.
I’d be charitable about it and assume you do actually mean equal living though because there’s no way for anyone here to know one way or another. In which case if it is basically sharing of house costs fairly then it’s not really the same as landlording even if you technically own it.
I’m technically charging less than my costs. But also, it’s quite common for houses to be rented out for less than the cost of ownership. We call it negative gearing, idea being to make a loss on paper after interest on the mortgage for tax reasons. (The real profit comes from capital gain.)
That said, I don’t have the capital to make it positively geared.
I don’t really mind this all that much. Willing to be charitable about it. I would not agree with hiding it though.
I don’t know how different I am to other leftists on this but I don’t think 1 or 2 home owners are the bulk of our problem. Ok most of them are petty-bourgeoise tyrants but also many are just people that don’t know better.
You’re a communist, you know what’s fair and what exploitation is. I think you will know if you’re crossing that line. Ultimately nobody here will have enough information to know for sure one way or another so we can only urge you to act responsibly.
I get it though. I had an inheritance from a bereavement that threw me into a similar situation of owning more property than I planned on owning at one point. I suspect that’s not an uncommon experience.
How much are you renting it for? If you’re taking in profits and not just covering expenses then kinda go fuck yourself tbh.
Also how do your tenants not know who they’re sending money to? Do you just collect the money and pretend to give it to some other person?
Renting for market rate. Utilities shared.
I take in less than half of what I pay to the bank in interest on the mortgage, so on paper right now it’s making a loss. (ofc the hope is that’s offset by interest rate drops and capital gain in future, so I’m not crying poor.)
Head tenant situations here aren’t uncommon, where one person has the place formally rented, and is in charge of paying the rent. I don’t pretend someone’s chasing me for rent or anything. I just say rent goes into that account.
I give the option of a written contract at the outset, but so far people have been happy enough to go with the informal setup.
Less than half of the interest payment, or less than half of the mortgage payment? Because I don’t believe you when you say market rent is only half of the, what, roughly 5% APR interest rate on the loan?
I’m guessing what you’re saying is that your tenant will be helping pay down your mortgage, but without getting any equity. If that’s the case, then you’re definitely setting up an exploitative, unequal relationship with your tenant. Whether that is inherently unethical or wrong is a more subjective matter, but any friendship you might think you have with your tenant/flatmate is going to be primarily colored by that unequal power and exploitation.
Less than half of the interest payment, or less than half of the mortgage payment? Because I don’t believe you when you say market rent is only half of the, what, roughly 5% APR interest rate on the loan?
Less than half the interest payment. It’s 90% leveraged, with interest of 6%.
If you factor in projected capital gain, then at this interest rate it’s barely break even. (That’s not to cry poor. I went into this planning on interest rate drops.)
Wow, that sucks. Well you should probably be up front to your tenants regardless, easier for everyone involved.
I take in less than half of what I pay to the bank in interest on the mortgage, so on paper right now it’s making a loss. (ofc the hope is that’s offset by interest rate drops and capital gain in future, so I’m not crying poor.)
Eh ngl it’s kinda shitty you’re having other people pay your mortgage, then again the bloated housing prices are ridiculous and you are actually using the real estate yourself.
You should at least be completely honest with your tenants tho, they deserve to know the whole situation.
Wasn’t there a
post about this like 2 years ago? I think we picked it over on teh donk tenk.https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/17o47it/aita_for_not_telling_my_boyfriend_i_own_the/
https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/duplicates/1fnd3n5/aita_for_not_telling_my_friends_i_am_technically/
https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1ci9qea/aita_for_not_telling_my_roommates_i_am_the/Let’s answer your question, though. Consider half the monthly cost of the apartment (averaged utilities, property tax, insurance, repairs, any building fees) and add 1 hour per month of your time at 1.5x minimum wage for your trouble. Do you charge your flatmate discernably more than this? If you don’t, then there’s probably no harm being done, and you can probably justify not telling them.
If you do, though, why? ಠಿ_ಠ
It’s more than those unless you factor in interest, in which case it’s less.
It’s a little different from the
threads, in that I’m not cashed up. A bit under 90% of the property is a bank loan, and banks demand a return on their money loaned, which is what the rent goes towards.Reddit links were detected in your comment. Here are links to the same locations on alternative frontends that protect your privacy.
Link 1:
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just because youre hiding the power dynamic doesnt mean there isnt one there.
If my flatmate was my landlord that would wildly change how i would behave towards them out of self preservation.
youre depriving them of the oppurtunity to act caustiously towards you because youre ‘chill, trust me’ and you dont want them on their gaurd even though they should be on their gaurd, because you weild the power to make them homeless
edit: also how are you even hiding it, dont they have to send you the money? or sign a contract?
Fair points. But by analogy, there’s not always an obligation to disclose stuff that might make others cautious. With concealed carry, for example, you wouldn’t go around brandishing it unless you want trouble.
Head tenant situations are pretty common here, where one person is in charge of landlord relations, so it’s not odd to not have any paperwork. I give the option of signing stuff, but people are happy to just do informal.
the question regarded ethics, in this case i think the correct ethical thing to do is inform them. As an aside i dont think i support concealed carry, if someone is carrying a weapon capable of killing multiple people i think that should be declared so people know to stay away from them
Fair.
Yeah even if we (for the sake of the argument assume that OP is chill as fuck) There is still a power dynamic at play. Frankly hiding this fact is unfair towards the flatmate imho.
