Don’t eat at a JD Wetherspoon, it’s basically McPub.
As I said in another comment, British cuisine basically had to be neutered during the wars due to extended rationing. People lived, but long-term damage was made. The best food here isn’t British, but British takes on foreign food.
It changed people’s perception of food. They might’ve thought spices were too strong.
40s and 50s food was simple to make and high in calories, like you’re trying to survive in a zombie apocalypse or something. My grandparents didn’t experience a lot of the post-war optimism a lot of the world seemed to have because Britain got fucked in a properly long-term way. Being an island that fought to the very end left it in a fairly unique position.
Like others have said, the war ‘locked in’ perceptions but there were years of supply shortages and government rationing of foodstuffs afterwards, ending in the early 50s.
Cookbooks were re-written at the time to emphasize economic meals like stews and soups that used a lot of vegetables you can grow in the garden and to use up scraps. Potatoes, leeks, and cabbage grew to feature much more heavily, meat was OUT as was sugar and most fruit… You try working varied and fun meals with those limits
So combined with the more ‘bland’ cuisine of the era and extensive rationing limitations, generations of households got used to cooking and eating the basic foods. Immigration and globalization has broadened the modern offerings, but the British classics’ are undeniably under spiced shades of grey and brown.
Also I imagine industrialization did a number even before the world wars. As I understand it a lot of Northern European recipes relied on certain styles of preservation that wouldnt be possible in say a London tenement. Hell just looking at my own families recipes from back during westward expansion it heavily emphasizes cured meats and foraged ingredients. Either that or harrassing Mexicans for spices.
Bleu cheese is good, but this is the first time in 43 years I’ve ever heard someone praise British cheese above Swiss or French cheeses.
Edit: looking it up that does look tasty. I’ll have to find some nearby.
Edit 2: fucking hell. It’s $20 a pound… Gonna have to get some though, any suggestions on a wine pairing? Apparently I could get an entire wheel for $130, but I don’t have a cellar to store it in, and there’s no way I’d go through an entire Skyrim sized wheel of cheese.
If you like sharp cheeses, I would highly recommend the cheese shop in Cuba, NY. They make some excellent extra sharp white cheddar.
Fun fact: the first curry shop to open in GB predated the first fish and chippery. Curry may not have been invented in GB, though apparently Chicken Tikka Masala was, but I would claim that the popularization of curries worldwide was certainly influenced more by the British than the Indians.
I would be shocked if that is true about the fish and chips coming after the curry. But, if it turns out to be true, I promise to repeat it very often.
Though I haven’t been there recently enough to offer any suggestions, London is packed with really good restaurants. You’ll be able to find basically whatever you want there.
I don’t know Southampton very well but I see there is a “The Pig…” there. I’ve been to one elsewhere and it was really good.
In terms of London, I’d say don’t limit yourself to the south, you’re never really more than 45 mins away from anywhere really. Brick Lane is a fun area, it’s kind of hipstery/street food/vintage clothing-y but also has two of my favourite places.
SMOKESTAK - one of the best things to actually survive the barbecue revolution a few years ago. Everything is smoked on premises, no take out.
Beigel Shop. This is one of (if not the) oldest bagel joints in London. It’s open 24/7, take out only, they only do three things (lox, chicken & salt beef). Have the salt beef with pickles and mustard, expect to queue, thank me later.
E. Thought Beigel was older, it’s only from the 70s.
E2. Found it, it was next door. It’s from 1855, link updated
Awesome! I forgot to mention there’s a Dishoom round the corner from all the Brick Lane stuff, it’s all based on Bombay style food. They’re open for breakfast too, can highly recommend the breakfast keema, best cure for a hangover I’ve ever found.
Also, if you’re interested in the whole salt beef sandwich thing, The Brass Rail at Selfridges is a fucking institution. Pro tip: if you see a queue but there’s a few people hanging back, it means they’re just about to bring out a fresh load of brisket. Hold off until those folks swoop in.
Edit: actually you know what, have some more recommendations.
Literally any Hawksmoor, there are a few in London, they’re always in art deco spaces, but in unusual places - Air Street is in the arches over some of the biggest shops in London, just off Piccadilly circus. If you want to know what a proper roast looks like, go here. Beef cooked over charcoal, charged by weight.
The Quality Chop House - this is an old favourite. Chop houses used to be all over London, they were a kind of after work eatery for your average businessman. Drop in after work, hang your hat by the door, have a beer and a chop, at some point later remember you have family, stagger home etc. As far as I know, this is the only chop house that still exists that has the original Victorian setup - very, very narrow benches and extremely thin tables (eat up, then fuck off!), and the folks who took it on have maintained the tradition of cooking their chops over coals. I mention this specifically because they have “mince on toast” on the menu which is what the OOP is shitting on. It’s a very traditional dinner and this would be the best place to try it outside of home cooking. Also, their confit potatoes are incredible. Small plates, expect to share, if you’re going there at the weekend it will be empty because nobody actually lives in Farringdon. They also do pretty decent set menus on weekdays and there is a roast on Sundays!
I was in London for a week last year and I went to that exact Dishoom three times, twice for breakfast and once for dinner. Probably my favorite meals of that trip. Everything was delicious, and I ended up buying a tin of their chai so I could make it at home.
If it’s not too late for your visit, the most renowned curry house in soton is Kutis. I used to live near the city rather than in it and found myself more often than not heading out to the new forest to find a country pub to go for nice meals.
I recently had a colleague from Mexico visiting me and he absolutely could not get enough of Wetherspoons food. He actually went back another 3 times during his stay.
Pretty much all the big brand pub meals are like that now. If it involves anything more than 15 minutes in an air fryer or a quick blast in the microwave, it isn’t on the menu.
I went to a cafe the other month, and asked for the toasted sandwich without the mustard. They couldn’t do it because they were all pre-packed. A bloody sandwich! It’s a crying shame as well, because the cafe used to be owned by somebody else, who did the best triple-cooked chips I’ve ever had, and went bust when the nearby carpark owner started slapping parking fines on all their customer’s cars. I liked the two mile walk to get there, but I get that a lot of people don’t.
Chicken Tikka Masala appears to have credibly originated in the UK. It’s probably as British as Beef Stroganoff is Russian (okay, looking it up, it looks like the latter may be at least a bit of a myth, but it gets my point across).
As American as Mac and Cheese is my go-to, since while there were pasta and cheese sauce dishes elsewhere, Thomas Jefferson got obsessed with Elbow Macaroni specifically, and had the extrusion machines shipped to his property in the US while he was an ambassador in Italy.
He then created a simpler version of oven baked Mac and Cheese, and insisted on serving it at every formal dinner at Monticello, while he was president.
I’m not disagreeing there. But were those British chefs who came up with it? And not chefs they brought back from places which Brits had conquered? Obviously no.
And, needless to say, tikka masala is about as far from modern English cuisine as you can get.
Well, they were British chefs with South Asian heritage who of course were indirectly here because of horrific Imperialism
But it is British, its very British. Despite what Farage and co want you to believe, we’re a multi-cultural nation and have been for centuries.
British-Indian cuisine is at this point distinct and diverse enough from traditional Indian cuisine that it is its own thing. And its super widespread - even the racists discuss how shitty they are over a curry
You know, this got my mind working for a bit. We have a similar phenomenon in the United States, where just about every ethnic cuisine is kind of a bastardized version of the more authentic dishes brought here by people emigrating from their home countries. American Chinese, Tex Mex, etc are all distinctly American but have clearly been inspired by their origin but modified for western tastes and sensibilities. It makes me wonder at what point a certain cuisine is considered to be a genuine and unique creation, rather than just something adopted from elsewhere by way of either conquest or cultural exchange? How many things do we associate with a particular nationality as being their specialty when that style of cooking or method of preparation or presentation were probably acquired along the way somewhere and forgotten with time? I guess it’s hard to know for sure.
If I wanted to be rigid about it I would say it can be considered as part of the region if you can locally source the ingredients. Anything ingredient you have to import should invalidate the fish but my actual opinion is, who cares. If it’s good it’s good.
Thomas Jefferson gave us Mac and Cheese. That’s 100% American food inspired by other pasta and cheese dishes, but Jefferson just got obsessed with Elbow Macaroni for some reason.
I’m pretty sure the only reason Apple Pie is associated with the US is because Johnny Appleseed was a drunk that wanted lots of cider.
But, more to my point: let’s say I walk into an English pub, and ask what they’ve got on the menu. How many times do you think they’ll tell me about the unseasoned fried fish, or the unseasoned fried potatoes, before they mention “oh and we’ve got chicken tikka masala”
I take issue with the word “immigrant” as it implies compliance, but okay.
No, that was not my intent, but I see your point. I think this is really all I meant to say:
Most former colonies of Britain can feel the influence of its culture a lot more than Britain feels the influence of any of its colonies’ cultures.
So when Britain says “we totally invented how to put butter and spices in a tomatoe base and add some chicken”. And tries to claim one of the last few things they haven’t from this subcontinent? I get kinda angry.
Don’t know why you are getting downvoted, you are absolutely right. The last time I was in London, which to be fair was over 10 years ago, their bread tasted sweeter than some cakes in my country.
I was there 7 years ago. I love bread and all forms of buns. I am an absolute fanatic. I cannot eat English bread, tho. It’s straight up vile to me. :< Like, I cannot say anything bad about everything else in there. But the bread is so terrible…
I’m going to be visiting in a few months. Speaking as a foreigner of course, is it British culture to minimize both color and hope in your cuisine?
Don’t eat at a JD Wetherspoon, it’s basically McPub.
As I said in another comment, British cuisine basically had to be neutered during the wars due to extended rationing. People lived, but long-term damage was made. The best food here isn’t British, but British takes on foreign food.
Did they forget to add the spices back in or something?
It changed people’s perception of food. They might’ve thought spices were too strong.
40s and 50s food was simple to make and high in calories, like you’re trying to survive in a zombie apocalypse or something. My grandparents didn’t experience a lot of the post-war optimism a lot of the world seemed to have because Britain got fucked in a properly long-term way. Being an island that fought to the very end left it in a fairly unique position.
Small history rant over.
Like others have said, the war ‘locked in’ perceptions but there were years of supply shortages and government rationing of foodstuffs afterwards, ending in the early 50s.
Cookbooks were re-written at the time to emphasize economic meals like stews and soups that used a lot of vegetables you can grow in the garden and to use up scraps. Potatoes, leeks, and cabbage grew to feature much more heavily, meat was OUT as was sugar and most fruit… You try working varied and fun meals with those limits
So combined with the more ‘bland’ cuisine of the era and extensive rationing limitations, generations of households got used to cooking and eating the basic foods. Immigration and globalization has broadened the modern offerings, but the British classics’ are undeniably under spiced shades of grey and brown.
Also I imagine industrialization did a number even before the world wars. As I understand it a lot of Northern European recipes relied on certain styles of preservation that wouldnt be possible in say a London tenement. Hell just looking at my own families recipes from back during westward expansion it heavily emphasizes cured meats and foraged ingredients. Either that or harrassing Mexicans for spices.
They probably forgot how exactly to add the spices.
I’ll take British cheese over any other.
Shropshire blue forever
Bleu cheese is good, but this is the first time in 43 years I’ve ever heard someone praise British cheese above Swiss or French cheeses.
Edit: looking it up that does look tasty. I’ll have to find some nearby.
Edit 2: fucking hell. It’s $20 a pound… Gonna have to get some though, any suggestions on a wine pairing? Apparently I could get an entire wheel for $130, but I don’t have a cellar to store it in, and there’s no way I’d go through an entire Skyrim sized wheel of cheese.
If you like sharp cheeses, I would highly recommend the cheese shop in Cuba, NY. They make some excellent extra sharp white cheddar.
Enjoy.
Fun fact: the first curry shop to open in GB predated the first fish and chippery. Curry may not have been invented in GB, though apparently Chicken Tikka Masala was, but I would claim that the popularization of curries worldwide was certainly influenced more by the British than the Indians.
I would be shocked if that is true about the fish and chips coming after the curry. But, if it turns out to be true, I promise to repeat it very often.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindoostane_Coffee_House
They are the first curry shop, opened in 1810
https://docksidehhi.com/the-history-of-fish-and-chips/
According to that the first fish and chippery opened in 1860
If you’d like to make any suggestions especially in the south London area or Southampton I’d be happy to hear them.
Though I haven’t been there recently enough to offer any suggestions, London is packed with really good restaurants. You’ll be able to find basically whatever you want there.
I don’t know Southampton very well but I see there is a “The Pig…” there. I’ve been to one elsewhere and it was really good.
In terms of London, I’d say don’t limit yourself to the south, you’re never really more than 45 mins away from anywhere really. Brick Lane is a fun area, it’s kind of hipstery/street food/vintage clothing-y but also has two of my favourite places.
SMOKESTAK - one of the best things to actually survive the barbecue revolution a few years ago. Everything is smoked on premises, no take out.
Beigel Shop. This is one of (if not the) oldest bagel joints in London. It’s open 24/7, take out only, they only do three things (lox, chicken & salt beef). Have the salt beef with pickles and mustard, expect to queue, thank me later.
E. Thought Beigel was older, it’s only from the 70s. E2. Found it, it was next door. It’s from 1855, link updated
Awesome! I will make an effort to stop by the Beigel shop especially because my wife and I love bagels.
Awesome! I forgot to mention there’s a Dishoom round the corner from all the Brick Lane stuff, it’s all based on Bombay style food. They’re open for breakfast too, can highly recommend the breakfast keema, best cure for a hangover I’ve ever found.
Also, if you’re interested in the whole salt beef sandwich thing, The Brass Rail at Selfridges is a fucking institution. Pro tip: if you see a queue but there’s a few people hanging back, it means they’re just about to bring out a fresh load of brisket. Hold off until those folks swoop in.
Edit: actually you know what, have some more recommendations.
Literally any Hawksmoor, there are a few in London, they’re always in art deco spaces, but in unusual places - Air Street is in the arches over some of the biggest shops in London, just off Piccadilly circus. If you want to know what a proper roast looks like, go here. Beef cooked over charcoal, charged by weight.
The Quality Chop House - this is an old favourite. Chop houses used to be all over London, they were a kind of after work eatery for your average businessman. Drop in after work, hang your hat by the door, have a beer and a chop, at some point later remember you have family, stagger home etc. As far as I know, this is the only chop house that still exists that has the original Victorian setup - very, very narrow benches and extremely thin tables (eat up, then fuck off!), and the folks who took it on have maintained the tradition of cooking their chops over coals. I mention this specifically because they have “mince on toast” on the menu which is what the OOP is shitting on. It’s a very traditional dinner and this would be the best place to try it outside of home cooking. Also, their confit potatoes are incredible. Small plates, expect to share, if you’re going there at the weekend it will be empty because nobody actually lives in Farringdon. They also do pretty decent set menus on weekdays and there is a roast on Sundays!
I was in London for a week last year and I went to that exact Dishoom three times, twice for breakfast and once for dinner. Probably my favorite meals of that trip. Everything was delicious, and I ended up buying a tin of their chai so I could make it at home.
I can highly recommend their cookbook if you’re into cooking. Their chicken ruby is probably one of the greatest things I’ve ever put in my face.
They call it chicken ruby but it’s basically a butter chicken/tikka masala.
Thanks for the suggestion! It’s goin on my list 👍
The salt beef is better than the lox? I’m suspicious.
The smoked salmon is good too, but it’s more of a normal sandwich. The salt beef is a bit more obscene, like you need a lie down after.
Ahh, like a good Thanksgiving feast, got it.
If it’s not too late for your visit, the most renowned curry house in soton is Kutis. I used to live near the city rather than in it and found myself more often than not heading out to the new forest to find a country pub to go for nice meals.
It is not too late! Just a few more days.
So what’s pre-war british food like ?
Curry. I’m being totally serious. The first curry shop predates both WWII and the first fish and chippery in GB.
I recently had a colleague from Mexico visiting me and he absolutely could not get enough of Wetherspoons food. He actually went back another 3 times during his stay.
Pretty much all the big brand pub meals are like that now. If it involves anything more than 15 minutes in an air fryer or a quick blast in the microwave, it isn’t on the menu.
I went to a cafe the other month, and asked for the toasted sandwich without the mustard. They couldn’t do it because they were all pre-packed. A bloody sandwich! It’s a crying shame as well, because the cafe used to be owned by somebody else, who did the best triple-cooked chips I’ve ever had, and went bust when the nearby carpark owner started slapping parking fines on all their customer’s cars. I liked the two mile walk to get there, but I get that a lot of people don’t.
English national dish is Chicken Tikka Masala. With a bit of garnish it can look quite colourful.
Lmao I guess when you’ve subjugated half the world, you can claim any dish as your own.
Chicken Tikka Masala appears to have credibly originated in the UK. It’s probably as British as Beef Stroganoff is Russian (okay, looking it up, it looks like the latter may be at least a bit of a myth, but it gets my point across).
As American as Mac and Cheese is my go-to, since while there were pasta and cheese sauce dishes elsewhere, Thomas Jefferson got obsessed with Elbow Macaroni specifically, and had the extrusion machines shipped to his property in the US while he was an ambassador in Italy.
He then created a simpler version of oven baked Mac and Cheese, and insisted on serving it at every formal dinner at Monticello, while he was president.
I’m not disagreeing there. But were those British chefs who came up with it? And not chefs they brought back from places which Brits had conquered? Obviously no.
And, needless to say, tikka masala is about as far from modern English cuisine as you can get.
Well, they were British chefs with South Asian heritage who of course were indirectly here because of horrific Imperialism
But it is British, its very British. Despite what Farage and co want you to believe, we’re a multi-cultural nation and have been for centuries.
British-Indian cuisine is at this point distinct and diverse enough from traditional Indian cuisine that it is its own thing. And its super widespread - even the racists discuss how shitty they are over a curry
You know, this got my mind working for a bit. We have a similar phenomenon in the United States, where just about every ethnic cuisine is kind of a bastardized version of the more authentic dishes brought here by people emigrating from their home countries. American Chinese, Tex Mex, etc are all distinctly American but have clearly been inspired by their origin but modified for western tastes and sensibilities. It makes me wonder at what point a certain cuisine is considered to be a genuine and unique creation, rather than just something adopted from elsewhere by way of either conquest or cultural exchange? How many things do we associate with a particular nationality as being their specialty when that style of cooking or method of preparation or presentation were probably acquired along the way somewhere and forgotten with time? I guess it’s hard to know for sure.
That’s an interesting thought.
If I wanted to be rigid about it I would say it can be considered as part of the region if you can locally source the ingredients. Anything ingredient you have to import should invalidate the fish but my actual opinion is, who cares. If it’s good it’s good.
Thomas Jefferson gave us Mac and Cheese. That’s 100% American food inspired by other pasta and cheese dishes, but Jefferson just got obsessed with Elbow Macaroni for some reason.
I’m pretty sure the only reason Apple Pie is associated with the US is because Johnny Appleseed was a drunk that wanted lots of cider.
Another example.
Fish and chips is Portugese. Surprisingly, so is vindaloo
But, more to my point: let’s say I walk into an English pub, and ask what they’ve got on the menu. How many times do you think they’ll tell me about the unseasoned fried fish, or the unseasoned fried potatoes, before they mention “oh and we’ve got chicken tikka masala”
Not exactly a national dish, in my opinion.
How about 'spoons on a Thursday? Actually I think they have Curry on the menu all week now.
“British chefs with South Asian heritage” lmao. That’s one way of putting it.
Yes. I agree. It is VERY British.
Would you like to go more into the origin of the phrase “British-Indian”?
I’m not denying the fucked up colonial history. You seem to be denying that South Asian immigrants are British - they are
I take issue with the word “immigrant” as it implies compliance, but okay.
No, that was not my intent, but I see your point. I think this is really all I meant to say:
Most former colonies of Britain can feel the influence of its culture a lot more than Britain feels the influence of any of its colonies’ cultures.
So when Britain says “we totally invented how to put butter and spices in a tomatoe base and add some chicken”. And tries to claim one of the last few things they haven’t from this subcontinent? I get kinda angry.
It was invented in the 1970s. It’s not exactly classic cuisine. It definitely counts as modern British.
Honestly you’ll find pretty much the same food here as anywhere else.
You just need to stick to real British food, such as pizza, curry and Chinese.
Beware their bread.
Don’t know why you are getting downvoted, you are absolutely right. The last time I was in London, which to be fair was over 10 years ago, their bread tasted sweeter than some cakes in my country.
I was there 7 years ago. I love bread and all forms of buns. I am an absolute fanatic. I cannot eat English bread, tho. It’s straight up vile to me. :< Like, I cannot say anything bad about everything else in there. But the bread is so terrible…
What, UK too?