I know that GrapheneOS has a lot of security features that make it basically impossible to compromise your phone. And that it has a lot of control over permissions and has some privacy features. But it also has a Google Services compatibility that would allow you to use Google services, which would allow Google to harvest a lot of data from you; much less data, but still some. Now OSes like CalyxOS or Lineage have microG which in addition to giving you the APIs, it uses less battery and has the ability to use Mozilla network location to stop google from getting that data. CalyxOS and Lineage don’t have the crazy hardening modifications that GrapheneOS has, but Android is already crazy secure compared to something like Windows or Linux without a properly configured SELinux or AppArmor. Why have Graphene over Calyx?
GrapheneOS has a lot of security features that make it basically impossible to compromise your phone
This is very dangerous thinking. No software is perfect; there are always ways to get in.
Now, in practice most people aren’t victims of targetted attacks and even devices with dozens of known local privilege escalation and remote code execution exploits won’t ever be attacked but those who will cannot rely on “x is basically impossible to compromise”. It takes layers and maintenance to actually be somewhat secure.
As you said, proper google services instead of microG. It’s been a bit since I used it, but it wasn’t great back then.
Sandboxed Google play service is actually more secure than MicroG.
it also has a Google Services compatibility that would allow you to use Google services, which would allow Google to harvest a lot of data from you
So does MicroG. Actually that’s kind of the point of both. Google play services exist to provide, well, Google play services like push notification which uses the Google servers. That’s the case with Sandboxed Google play and GrapheneOS.
OSes like CalyxOS or Lineage have microG
Yes. Pre-installed. That’s kind of a problem if you don’t want to use them in a specific profile. Also it’s quite a security issue since it needs signature spoofing to work which is insecure by definition.
has the ability to use Mozilla network location to stop google from getting that data
That alone doesn’t stop Google from getting your location data. Only not giving the your location data does this. On GrapheneOS you do this by… not enabling the location permission for any Google services including the play services.
Also by default GrapheneOS already uses GrapheneOS servers for location data and you can set your own proxy in the location settings
That’s basically everything about it. Yes, battery life is an issue on GrapheneOS with sandboxed Google play service, but well, at least it just has the permissions of a normal app. Not a privileged system app that pretends to be another app to work.
Yeah but those are the issues that I have. The idea is to have a private phone where you don’t have to worry about Google harvesting your data and keeping it forever. But when you have an OS that has all these features and then use the Google services that take all that data, what is the point?
Also it’s quite a security issue since it needs signature spoofing to work which is insecure by definition.
According to the last paragraph here, the spoofing at least in Calyx is limited to only microG. It’s less secure than a sandboxed thing, but I don’t think it’s gonna be that bad.
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It’s true that you can choose not to give Google the location data or any other thing for that matter, but wouldn’t that hinder the functionality of the apps that need it? I believe there is no choice here, unless I’m missing something.
If you want to use something like Pokemon Go or whatever, your data is going to go to Google. Or if you use apps that use the Google notification servers, wouldn’t Google be able to use that data (I don’t know if they’re able to actually read the notifications, I’m just assuming).
I’m not shilling for OEM ROMs or attacking anything, but I wanna feel actually justified in the hassle and potential downgrade of the digital experience when I move to another ROM.
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Sure the security is good and all but what about the privacy aspect? That’s what I worry about. Like I said, I believe Android is secure enough as is, but the dependence on all the Google services is what makes it less private. Using Graphene sure does increase security, but it cannot do much in terms of being private.
It can reduce the amount of data that goes to Google. But if you use non-privacy-respecting apps, then you’re SOL. My question is that, given all of the privacy issues that Graphene doesn’t (and probably cannot) address, does it still make sense to install from a privacy standpoint?
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That’s the main thing. I can easily use another email provider with no issues, I can install another OS that respects my privacy. But what if my dumbfuck friends and family use something like snapchat, instagram, or facebook messenger to communicate? I tried to tell them to use signal before but they wouldn’t listen. And I’m not about to stop messaging them anytime soon. And if I use those services, wouldn’t those companies have a good profile on me? Making the effort to be more private pretty useless.
It isn’t less private than MicroG and Sandboxed so Google gets even less data
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That’s why on Android, apps have to request the location permission to have access to Bluetooth, WiFi and cellular networks and their signal strengths. No app has that information unless you explicitly allow it
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But that needs to be built in to it on a hardware level. Sure the cell towers know where you are though
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In this case, faraday bag might be useful
GrapheneOS itself is great, but the GrapheneOS community is toxic. Something to consider. If you want deGoogled Android without the drama, consider CalyxOS.
Honestly, I don’t mind the drama. I just want answers to my specific questions about privacy without people mentioning security all the time. But thanks mate
Sandboxed Google Play provides better security, privacy and usability. Why that is, as well as your question about Calyx vs Graphene, is answered in this Privacy Guides Blogpost.
It says that trusting Mozilla for the location backend is the same as trusting Google. I may be biased or something because I use Mozilla services but that’s just insane to me. Mozilla’s business model is not the same as Google’s. Are there no network based location services for Graphene other tjan Google? GPS location sucks sometimes and I’d like to have a proper alternative if possible.
