EDIT: I'm very proud of this community. All the posts are making me think and solidly criticizing from an anti-imperialist perspective. Thanks, hexbear

      • Thomas_Dankara [any,comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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        2 years ago

        Both sidesism that includes your side is fence sitting

        I didn’t include “My side”. None of these bourgeois nations or international institutions represent the working class.

        I think Russia’s invasion was strategically necessary from a bourgeois nationalist perspective of protecting themselves from NATO expansion, and I absolutely think NATO/US/EU carry the largest responsibility in provoking the war. We should stand against all forms of bourgeois nationalism, while recognizing Russia and Ukraine as victims of US imperialism, and a byproduct of US-backed privatization in the 90s. I hope this isn’t right deviationism but feel free to correct and critique this stance.

        • A_Serbian_Milf [they/them]@hexbear.net
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          2 years ago

          So you aren’t a Leninist? Lenin is talking about foreign capitalist nations and how attacking them while your own imperialist nation is at war is a form of imperialist intrigue. You are just doing ultraleftism right now and not principled Leninism.

          The difference between organizing around the two:

          Principled: Oppose NATO and work to stop weapon shipments and push for peaceful negotiation as soon as possible

          Unprincipled: oppose everyone equally and sit on your ass going “let them fight”

          • Thomas_Dankara [any,comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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            2 years ago

            So you aren’t a Leninist? Lenin is talking about foreign capitalist nations and how attacking them while your own imperialist nation is at war is a form of imperialist intrigue. You are just doing ultraleftism right now and not principled Leninism.

            The US/NATO/EU are responsible for the war, and they’re also responsible for the Russian federation existing in its current form. I don’t think I’m doing “imperialist intrigue” since Russian Federation wouldn’t exist in the first place if it weren’t for US/NATO/EU. If I criticize Russian Federation in any way, it is only insofar as they are a direct result of US imperialism. Hope that makes sense. Same goes for Ukraine and any other post-soviet country. They’re all victims of US imperialism. To the extent that the meme is an incomplete or lazy metaphor, I apologize. I was hoping it could pipeline libs away from a pro-NATO stance but if it fails at that, maybe it needs to be rethought.

            Principled: Oppose NATO and work to stop weapon shipments and push for peaceful negotiation as soon as possible

            Unprincipled: oppose everyone equally and sit on your ass going “let them fight”

            I don’t oppose everyone equally or think the fighting should continue. I’d agree that a peaceful negotiation is necessary as soon as possible. But I don’t see NATO relenting, or Russia letting its guard down, or the Ukraine govt. accepting any peace terms put forward by Russia.

            • A_Serbian_Milf [they/them]@hexbear.net
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              2 years ago

              So because NATO previously looted Russia that makes it more ok for NATO to attack them now? I don’t follow your convoluted logic to get out of revolutionary defeatism

              • Thomas_Dankara [any,comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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                2 years ago

                So because NATO previously looted Russia that makes it more ok for NATO to attack them now?

                I’m not pro NATO or think it’s OK for NATO to do anything it has done. Where did I say it was ok for NATO to do anything? NATO shouldn’t exist. And neither should the Russian federation. Bring back the USSR. Russian federation only exists because NATO destroyed the USSR through US-backed privatization and looting.

                  • Thomas_Dankara [any,comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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                    2 years ago

                    how am I fence sitting when I said NATO/US/EU caused this war and also destroyed the USSR? Like if Ukraine and Russia were both still socialist and part of the USSR, and if NATO didn’t exist, none of this would possible.