While the president has stood strongly behind Israel since Hamas attacked, he said on “60 Minutes” that a new occupation of Gaza would “be a big mistake.”
    • APassenger@lemmy.world
      736·
      9 months ago

      It’s this part.

      We’re telling them they’ve gone too far, seeing rules… and giving them weapons. Are we giving them seasons so they listen?

      And if they don’t listen, doesn’t this make us complicit and with exceedingly poor intensional optics?

    • ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world
      297·
      9 months ago

      How much Israeli money do you reckon went into the pockets of members of the fascist “freedom” caucus?

    • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
      1546·
      9 months ago

      Perhaps stop funding Hamas. USA has given Palestine several billions of dollars in aid, which they divert to the hands of Hamas. Ditto for rest of the western world. It isn’t just Iran and Qatar who enable them, it’s all of us.

      • treefrog@lemm.ee
        2812·
        9 months ago

        Your post uses double speak. Opening with Hamas and switching to Palestine.

        Hamas was democratically elected but they stopped allowing elections. They don’t represent Palestine and intentionally conflating relief efforts with funding Hamas comes off as more than a little racist.

        If you’re parroting some news source you may want to look for your news someplace else. If these are really your own views you may want to examine them if you don’t like sounding racist.

        If you don’t mind, then by all means, carry on. Just don’t expect to be taken seriously outside of right wing circles.

        • Tony@lemmy.stad.social
          18·
          9 months ago

          Also worth adding, since people don’t seem to realise this: The majority of Palestinians alive today were not of voting age when Hamas won those elections, and a very substantial proportion were not even born.

          And even then, of course, while Hamas won the largest number of votes, even back then they still only had the support of a minority (ca. 44%) of the electorate.

          Exit polls during the same election showed near 80% support for a peace agreement with Israel, and 75% who wanted Hamas policy towards Israel to change. In other words: It’s also disingenuous to see even the support for Hamas that was there in elections as support for the more extreme aspects of Hamas’ actions.

  • PugJesus@kbin.social
    1192·
    9 months ago

    Biden: “For fuck’s sake, Israel, don’t do something this monumentally stupid.”

    No points for guessing what comes next.

      • sik0fewl@kbin.social
        244·
        9 months ago

        That’s been happening for decades and just last week they starting displacing 1MM more. So I don’t think “next” is the right word.

    • khepri@lemmy.world
      61·
      9 months ago

      I don’t see why they’d need to occupy anything. Occupation would imply that you wanted to control that area and those people. I think Israel knows occupation would never work and wouldn’t try it. They’ve preferred to wall-off people in enclaves, slowly squeeze all life out of those regions, and when the people they have cornered inevitably violently lash out against their own slow-motion genocide, it’s time to flatten the area with bombs again. Israel calls it “mowing the grass” and I don’t think a massive occupation fits with that strategy. I think they want to break the region, scatter the people, and leave it to rot, not occupy and be forced to manage it into the future indefinitely.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
      72·
      9 months ago

      I have 500 on anyone who evacuated the Northern area is denied re-entry and the maps change to gaslight the world into thinking Gaza was always that small.

    • APassenger@lemmy.world
      1433·
      9 months ago

      Biden needs to be primaried.

      The democratic party keeps making the mistake of picking a winner early.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        3·
        9 months ago

        It’s too late. None of the state parties have any of the setup done for a primary. Once an incumbent president (of either party) declares they’re running again their party automatically backs them. I just feel lucky we have incumbent primaries for Congress.

        • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
          12·
          9 months ago

          I mean, I’m voting for West. Democrats only hold power if we say they do. Just don’t vote for Democrats ever again. The only control we have is over ourselves let’s exercise it

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
            2·
            9 months ago

            If there’s a chance then sure. But I’m not exactly going to stick a fork in my eye just to spite the Democrats.

            • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
              22·
              9 months ago

              Voting for Democrats will only exacerbate our problems. Democrats have never made societies problems meaningfully better, at least in the modern era. Its not spiting them, it’s not signing off on the thing we all know will definitely happen. Voting for Biden will make things worse. Voting for West might possibly make things better. The choice is obvious.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
                2·
                9 months ago

                If West has a chance sure. If not then we’re just denying votes to the contest between Status Quo man and Fascist man.

      • Jaysyn@kbin.social
        1535·
        9 months ago

        The USA could end homelessness or hunger (and maybe both) nationally for the amount of money we sent to Israel each year.

        • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world
          38·
          9 months ago

          No, no they could not lol. Not even remotely close.

          The US spends $2 Billion a year on aid to Israel.

          They spend $105 Billion a year in direct payments to SNAP (food stamps) recipients.

          And $32 Billion a year on section 8 housing vouchers.

            • treefrog@lemm.ee
              14·
              9 months ago

              The problem is starving homeless children. Feeding them and giving them housing fixes this. It also gives them more opportunities, which makes it more likely they contribute to society in meaningful ways (including paying more in taxes than we spend helping them, especially when factored over generations). The alternative is often a bigger tax burden via the criminal justice system. (Prison is much more expensive than housing vouchers and food stamps).

              Bringing people out of poverty is a good economic investment. The only time handouts don’t help is when they go to the financial sector. It doesn’t improve tax income for the State and investors begin to predict bailouts, making risky investments more worthwhile because Uncle Sam will help them out.

              Tax the rich, feed the poor.

          • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
            135·
            9 months ago

            Since ‘48, we’ve sent over 158 billion in aid- without adjusting for inflation.

            It’s more than all other countries combined- including Ukraine.

            Even that 2 billion could go a very long way to helping.

            • yetAnotherUser@feddit.de
              6·
              9 months ago

              You’re right, it could.

              In fact, the US could fund a few wars and conflicts, end homelessness, implement socialized healthcare and fund the world’s best public transit system with affordable high-speed trains between cities simultaneously.

              But they don’t because they don’t want to, not because they can’t.

            • treefrog@lemm.ee
              41·
              9 months ago

              That’s enough to end homelessness last I checked. (Last year or so I compared median national housing prices and found that Elon Musk’s wealth was enough to take every family and single person in the country off the street. That’s how obscene 150 billion is. It’s enough to end homelessness).

              • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
                11·
                9 months ago

                Eh, I’m a bit pessimistic about a 100% solution to it. Can’t save everyone… That’s not a reason to not do everything that can be done, but I just don’t think there will ever be an end.

                And I absolutely agree with how obscene it is

            • Deftdrummer@lemmy.world
              14·
              9 months ago

              Good thing it’s more than Ukraine too. Wouldn’t want any com block arms dealers mouths to go unfed.

        • torpak@discuss.tchncs.de
          9·
          9 months ago

          That homelessness and hunger are not ended in the USA is not because the money needed is spent on other things, it is because the government doesn’t want to end them.

    • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
      132·
      9 months ago

      “Or else we will be very, very angry with you. And we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.”

    • Chunk@lemmy.world
      2·
      9 months ago

      Or the region could destabilize and the US has diplomatic cover to limit their hypothetical response to a more defensive set of operations.

    • drdalek13@lemmy.ml
      358·
      9 months ago

      I definitely get your point here, but a ground invasion would be irreversible. They would never leave Gaza

        • dustyData@lemmy.worldEnglish
          71·
          9 months ago

          They didn’t demand evacuation back then. They invaded, killed a bunch of people, declared victory, then left (obvious oversimplification). This time, they ordering the civilian population to leave seems to be an indication they expect to invade, murder stragglers, then annex the land once it’s empty and leveled. It does seem to go along with the rhetoric of “exerting a price they’ve never dreamed of”.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
            5·
            9 months ago

            It’s very much a price the Palestinians dream of though. Israeli settler groups did exactly that in 1947.

  • SpiralSong@lemmy.world
    6112·
    9 months ago

    Biden “And definitely don’t occupy 5 different countrys at the same time. Some of them for over 20 years. Come on man!”

    • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
      2213·
      9 months ago

      It appears that Israel possibly was aware the attack was going to happen and they allowed it. Regardless, Israel supports Hamas. They need Hamas so they can justify their murder and colonialism. I agree Hamas is bad, but the Zionists have done much more harm. Bibi should not be in office.

      • paintbucketholder@lemmy.world
        142·
        9 months ago

        I would need much, much more solid proof for this conspiracy theory before believing it.

        I don’t doubt Israel had some unspecified warnings, but I just think it’s much more likely that it was a mixture of a misguided belief that Hamas was more interested in political power than large scale terrorism, an assumption that any attack would just be “regular” rocket attacks like we’ve seen in the last years, incompetence of Israeli intelligence services, and an over confidence that the fence and Iron Dome would be enough to stop any attack.

        Also, Israel doesn’t need Hamas. Just look at the West Bank where Hamas isn’t in power.

        Agree though that Bibi shouldn’t be in power.

        • MoistMogwai@lemmy.world
          42·
          9 months ago

          It’s a difficult thing to prove without a whistle blower fairly high up in Israeli intelligence. What does look very suspicious is one of the most advanced intelligence agencies in the world “missed it”, and it took one of the most well funded and constantly present in the area militaries 8 hours to respond.

          Israel has had a major PR problem as more and more people view Palestinians as people who also deserve to be alive. Letting a terrorist group in that region attack undefended is a way for Israel to play the victim as they respond by taking more land homes and lives.

    • Zoolander@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      9 months ago

      Genuine question… how is killing 1800 people protecting oneself against an attack that killed 1200 people? I would agree that Israel has a right to protect itself from terrorist attacks but I fail to see how killing more people protects anyone. If anything, it’s just instigating the terrorists to continue to try and kill more people.

    • Onfire@lemmy.world
      211·
      9 months ago

      You think Hamas won’t be in power unless majority of people supports it? They celebrated when Hamas murder those citizens.

    • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
      719·
      9 months ago

      Hamas is palestines means of fighting back at their oppressors. You can’t say they are separate entities, because without Hamas, Palestinians would all be dead by now. Its like saying “I support having meat, but not the killing of animals”. And why are you pro Israel? They want to do genocide. If the Israeli people are innocent of their countries crimes, they will overthrow the government.

      • PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
        112·
        9 months ago

        A bunch of 20 year olds raving in the desert are not “the oppressors.”

        You are just stating your opinion.

        The real fascists are netanyahu and his ilk.

      • SCB@lemmy.world
        137·
        9 months ago

        Without Hamas, Palestinians would have their own country lol

        Hamas is literally the only reason they do not. Hamas only exists because Israel was finally close to talking Abbas into a two state solution, which he had previously always denied.

        How do you not know this, at this point?

      • lolcatnip@reddthat.comEnglish
        1·
        9 months ago

        If the Israeli people are innocent of their countries crimes, they will overthrow the government.

        It never, ever works that way. Seriously, name one time when a government was overthrown by its own citizens for committing atrocities against foreigners.

          • lolcatnip@reddthat.comEnglish
            1·
            9 months ago

            I don’t believe in setting bars people are demonstrably unable to reach. You’re basically asking people to start a civil war to protect strangers they’ll never meet, knowing the outcome of such a war is far from certain. Even if you win, the damage to your country could be catastrophic, and the odds of ending up with new leaders who are at least as bad as the old ones are pretty high.

            • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
              1·
              9 months ago

              Yes, you should start a civil war to prevent your country doing genocide. Because the alternative is genocide. What exactly is complicated about this?

                • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
                  1·
                  9 months ago

                  I am listening to what you’re saying, you’re making excuses for Americans who don’t care enough to stop a genocide happening on their dime.

                  What do you think the most effective way is for an American to try to prevent this genocide? Your whataboutism isn’t wholly wrong, but I don’t know what I’m supposed to do beyond writing to my senators demanding that they kill the funding. So, what is your answer?

  • inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
    474·
    9 months ago

    Yeah, what will he or the Democrats do when Israel does occupy Gaza?

    Continue to provide unequivocal support and money to Israel?

    It’s not like they’ll do anything else like officially recognize Israel has been acting as a apartheid state causing mass human suffering which in turn grew more mass suffering and conflict.

    • Wogi@lemmy.world
      161·
      9 months ago

      Don’t you dare cross this line!

      Ok don’t cross this line!!

      Ok don’t cross THIS line!

      Ok I’m going inside, if you knock, I’m not coming out.

    • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
      31·
      9 months ago

      Obama picked Biden for VP because he was a darling of the Israel lobby, who didn’t particularly like Obama. Anyone who’s satisfied by this sort of lip service from Biden were just looking for any reason to absolve the administration to serve a partisan political alignment.

    • Reality Suit@lemmy.one
      32·
      9 months ago

      I think it would be the ultimate show of force if the U.S. gives aid to Israel, tells Israel to not go any further, and when they do, the U.S. obliterates their military. “We helped you and you still lost.” I just wish the innocent wouldn’t get killed. The innocent and vulnerable are always the ones who suffer. Fuck war.

  • Copernican@lemmy.world
    333·
    9 months ago

    “I think it’d be a big mistake,” Mr. Biden told “60 Minutes” on CBS in a conversation taped on Thursday and aired on Sunday night. “Look, what happened in Gaza, in my view, is Hamas and the extreme elements of Hamas don’t represent all the Palestinian people. And I think that it would be a mistake for Israel to occupy Gaza again.” But “taking out the extremists” there, he added, “is a necessary requirement.”

    I’m not sure how anyone is taking this as a controversial take. Logistically, practically, and the urgent bloodthirst for revenge make this fucking hard to do. But this seems to me to be a pretty even keeled non polarizing take on a complex situation where there is justification for military action against a terrorist group, and that military action must be measured against the safety and needs of a civilian population.

    • orcrist@lemm.ee
      121·
      9 months ago

      It’s not an even take, because he has not proposed taking out the extremists in Israel.

      • phillaholic@lemm.ee
        1·
        9 months ago

        Not comparable. Israel is an ally, and needs our funding. Russia has been an advocacy or “enemy of my enemy” type more or less for a hundred years

      • night_of_knee@lemmy.world
        23·
        9 months ago

        Because Israel already occupies Gaza and other Palestinian areas.

        Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, where the hell are you getting your information?

        • Zoolander@lemmy.worldEnglish
          91·
          9 months ago

          Israel still controls all traffic, imports, utilities, and ingress/egress from the area (if it didn’t, they wouldn’t have been able to cut off power, water, and aid). Israel “withdrawing from Gaza” doesn’t really mean much unless Gaza has elected representation and can sustain itself.

          • samokosik@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
            11·
            8 months ago

            Gaza literally has a border with egypt and sea.

            In addition, controlling imports and exports is fully reasonable when there is a terrorist organization in power.

            • Zoolander@lemmy.worldEnglish
              11·
              8 months ago

              It’s funny because your comment is literally meaningless. Which terrorist organization are you referring to? Hamas or Israel?

                • Zoolander@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  1·
                  8 months ago

                  False. There are 2. One has killed about 1400 people, the other has killed over 8000 in the last week alone.

  • DreBeast@lemmy.world
    307·
    9 months ago

    The US is sending mix signals. Biden condemns Hamas, calls them terrorists, and funds the iron dome. Of course Israel thinks they have carte blanche in the region. Surrounded by hostile nations, what other nations in the world acts as aggressive as Israel. They do it because they know they have the full backing of the US. The question is will we live in a world without any Palestinians in the middle east soon - coz that’s where we’re headed.

    Israel misspelled their defense system. Should be called the irony dome.

    • Dubito_Cogito@lemmy.world
      224·
      9 months ago

      I agree with you. But I’d like to add this. I live in Israel at the moment, I’m not Israeli but I moved here for my job. I live in a pretty safe area, but we still had rockets coming from Gaza and from up north Hezbolla. They were explicitly targeting civilian areas. But iron Dome and the other system, David something intercepted it. Perspective on life changes when you see a flying missile heading your way only to get intercepted by these systems. The area where I live is full of Arabs, Jews, immigrant from Eastern Europe etc. and had several pro-palastine rallies in the past couple of days, and I stand with them. Also, There have been at least 5 to 6 Hamas strikes every hour since last week, they are targeting everywhere around Israel and iron Dome is on full protection.

      I just wanted to add, I don’t know what for…

      • Shyfer@ttrpg.network
        113·
        9 months ago

        I imagine your perspective also changes if the missiles were landing and killing people, innocent civilians all around you, your house, hospitals, etc. That’s what it’s like for the people in Gaza. It also looks pretty suspicious when there’s lots of immigrants in Israel and mostly Palestinians in a separate cordoned off area (kinda like an apartheid state).

        • Dubito_Cogito@lemmy.world
          34·
          9 months ago

          There are quite a lot of palastinians here mate. You should really visit Palestine when you get a chance… the amount of people chanting death to the Jews is kind of absurd.

          Please try and check out some telegram groups or sites like Funker etc for leaked footage. Hamas holds them hostage during the knock-off alert. IDF doesn’t target civilians explicitly. The nuances of this war are a bit deeper than what we can convey in text here.

          Also see that Israel has asylum for gay/trans people fleeing Palestine or middle east. My point being, Israel does try to be as humane as possible in this war, but some horror stories about Hamas (and other terrorist organisations) are really depraved.

          I support peace. That is all. No more bloodshed.

          Edit: I forgot to add this… when I said perspective, I’m talking about perspective on life. Not in this war or religion or anything else. Just living and life in general

          • Zoolander@lemmy.worldEnglish
            10·
            9 months ago

            Israel does try to be as humane as possible in this war

            How can you possibly say this when the number of people Israel has killed dwarfs the number of people killed by any Palestinian terrorist group, Hamas or otherwise?

            I support peace too but one side of this equation is tipped so far that it’s hard for me to take anyone seriously that claims Israel’s goals are anywhere near the vicinity of “peaceful” or “humane”.

            That being said… stay safe. I can’t imagine the situation you’re in.

          • Shyfer@ttrpg.network
            71·
            9 months ago

            I mean, ya, there’s a lot of Palestinians there. That’s because Israel took their land. There’s also a lot of black people in South Africa, even during apartheid, too. But tons of them were still pushed off their homes into tiny strips of land in Gaza and the West Bank, so now the majority are in those other places. The same thing happened to the natives in the US.

            IDF don’t target civilians explicitly but they also don’t seem to care about them. They’ve killed thousands more civilians than Hamas has with the barest of excuses, all to find Hamas not really caring about collateral. That’s what happens when you drop bombs all over the place. And the fear and terror and horrible quality of life causes things like Hamas. Hamas sucks, I’m sure they would kill more if they could, but Israel has the power in this relationship. When non-violent protests lead to killed or getting your knees blown off, or to nothing at all (like most protests for Palestinians have been for the last near century), when there’s no hope or chance of growth, the average is 18 and you’re probably never going to grow old or successful, then people turn to monsters like Hamas.

      • phillaholic@lemm.ee
        2·
        9 months ago

        Thank you for adding it. It boils down to regular people being hurt, and as an outsider I feel helpless because there doesn’t seem to be a good solution, just less bad ones.

    • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
      2·
      9 months ago

      Now that it’s been a week since Hamas attacked, there’s all these stories coming out about how the IDF didn’t even respond to the attack for an hour, and how many friendly fire incidents keep happening, and how incompetent the ground troops are in general. The certainty in their military might is completely gone and now there’s no telling what could happen. Western allies have basically given them carte blanch approval for genocide and now some of them aren’t so certain.