There is another problem that I don’t think gets enough attention when talking about educational achievement. The article mentions the rise in misogyny in these disaffected boys, but it doesn’t take that to the logical conclusion.
People of lower education and already feeling dejected and isolated are ripe for radicalization; if we continue down this path of failing boys, we will end up in a place where gangs will gain followers easily and as a society we will wring out collective hands and ask “how do we fix this?”.
Highly educated people can be radicalized; but it is much much more difficult to do.
We need boys to feel that education is worth their time, that it has value and that they themselves can see a path to being educated. Maybe it is boys schools and girls schools, that specifically cater to their need at the primary level. Maybe it is different classes in the same schools. Maybe it is another thing entirely, but it has to be something, because if we continue too fail boys the gangs will pick up the disaffected and dejected boys and give them a sense of community and respect. The more boys that we fail the more power the gangs get.
I once saw a post by a “feminist” basically saying that it was good that girls were out performing boys at all levels of education. That girls “deserved” to have the upper hand after centuries of being the under class. But this misses a significant point; like it or not men are physically stronger, more aggressive and if they “have no future” will steal, batter, kill, rape and destroy communities. Large groups of uneducated boys and men are a danger to society at large…we pretty much no longer have convenient wars to thin that particular demographic out.
We need to ensure that boys by and large do well in education, it is not a competition between boys and girls especially at primary school. The upper end of high school and definitely at university there is competition, but by then the students already value education.
I just want to say, as someone who actually is a feminist person, without the scare quotes, it’s much better for society as a whole, and for women, if boys do as well in education as possible.
I too would like to see more research on this (and also a lot more policy attention given to international research which I think is something NZ does badly).
But, I also think this article fudges the issue slightly in the way it suddenly shifts the goalposts from all boys to disadvantaged boys. The gender pay gap is not going away anytime soon. This is partly due to sector pay differences, and most of the trades are still not particularly welcoming for young women (given that, it’s no wonder young women throw themselves into tertiary in such numbers). Middleclass boys by and large are still becoming successful men, as far as I can see.
It wasn’t meant as scare quotes, the person in question called themselves a feminist. I don’t know many, but those I do know want what’s best for all. They are not looking to oppresse men to “get back at them”.
Yeah, I can understand that. There’s a young boy in my family and I really don’t want him to be disadvantaged by the system.
Not sure what it’s like now, but when I was working I got the impression that the secondary system was setting up some people to fail. We really needed more equitable teaching across deciles.
I just looked for work on Seek and Trade Me and there’s maybe 2 jobs suitable for me, assuming the hours are reasonable. I’d rather die in a ditch in Ukraine than live in a backwater country like NZ. Nobody should pretend we are first world. Look at the poverty here, and the downtrodden fools who work in supermarkets, hardware stores and distribution centres. Being a wigger, acting tough and boasting about made up stories makes you top dog in some industries. NZ is a backwater country and it will never develop into anything that resembles a decent country. In 10 years from now I’ll still be complaining about crappy over-priced rental bedrooms, and jobs that chew through staff every month.
Don’t dismiss supermarket work, I worked in supermarkets for years before I decided to go back to uni and get a degree in what I wanted to do.
Having a job, any job is good. It gives you a schedule and people relying on you, both are good for a sense of purpose, which is what most people are searching for (weather they know it or not). Even if the managers are jerks, which can actually be a boon because it lets you and your underpaid, underappreciated team bond…nothing like a common enemy to come together over.
Having something to do; that is relatively mindless, lets you think about your wants and needs for the future, all the while getting paid. Maybe you decide after a year that this isn’t for you and go and get an apprenticeship and become a plumber or a sparky. Maybe you decide, that actually this is what I want and go into management (and become the jerk). Maybe it takes 2 years, but you will find friends and get paid.
Shaking your fist at the world, will get you no where. Searching for community in the wrong places will just make things worse.
In another post you said
The only thing I’ve done wrong is have the wrong thoughts about the government, that’s not even a criminal record.
What is wrong with that; I think anti-government thoughts all the time; but I also know a bit of history. Democracy is shit, but it is less shit than the other systems we have tried. Having an opinion is what you get as a thinking individual; I would be far more worried about the zealot that agrees with everything the government does. As long as you vote; then you get to complain, simple as that. If you can’t be arsed voting then you are voting for the winner.
I didn’t vote for National or Act; I disagree with most of what they are proposing. But hey, that is what happened so we have to live with it for the next few years.
There is another problem that I don’t think gets enough attention when talking about educational achievement. The article mentions the rise in misogyny in these disaffected boys, but it doesn’t take that to the logical conclusion.
People of lower education and already feeling dejected and isolated are ripe for radicalization; if we continue down this path of failing boys, we will end up in a place where gangs will gain followers easily and as a society we will wring out collective hands and ask “how do we fix this?”.
Highly educated people can be radicalized; but it is much much more difficult to do.
We need boys to feel that education is worth their time, that it has value and that they themselves can see a path to being educated. Maybe it is boys schools and girls schools, that specifically cater to their need at the primary level. Maybe it is different classes in the same schools. Maybe it is another thing entirely, but it has to be something, because if we continue too fail boys the gangs will pick up the disaffected and dejected boys and give them a sense of community and respect. The more boys that we fail the more power the gangs get.
I once saw a post by a “feminist” basically saying that it was good that girls were out performing boys at all levels of education. That girls “deserved” to have the upper hand after centuries of being the under class. But this misses a significant point; like it or not men are physically stronger, more aggressive and if they “have no future” will steal, batter, kill, rape and destroy communities. Large groups of uneducated boys and men are a danger to society at large…we pretty much no longer have convenient wars to thin that particular demographic out.
We need to ensure that boys by and large do well in education, it is not a competition between boys and girls especially at primary school. The upper end of high school and definitely at university there is competition, but by then the students already value education.
I just want to say, as someone who actually is a feminist person, without the scare quotes, it’s much better for society as a whole, and for women, if boys do as well in education as possible.
I too would like to see more research on this (and also a lot more policy attention given to international research which I think is something NZ does badly).
But, I also think this article fudges the issue slightly in the way it suddenly shifts the goalposts from all boys to disadvantaged boys. The gender pay gap is not going away anytime soon. This is partly due to sector pay differences, and most of the trades are still not particularly welcoming for young women (given that, it’s no wonder young women throw themselves into tertiary in such numbers). Middleclass boys by and large are still becoming successful men, as far as I can see.
It wasn’t meant as scare quotes, the person in question called themselves a feminist. I don’t know many, but those I do know want what’s best for all. They are not looking to oppresse men to “get back at them”.
Sounds about right. Most people I (used to) know are feminist at least as an adjective, and want equality and/or equitable outcomes for all.
That post you saw had an outlook that’s pretty weird/radicalized imo. None of us have been alive for centuries (unless we’re counting the undead).
Thanks for the reply.
I am quite passionate about education, I also have 3 young boys so I’m biased toward quality education for boys, that we seem to be failing at.
Yeah, I can understand that. There’s a young boy in my family and I really don’t want him to be disadvantaged by the system.
Not sure what it’s like now, but when I was working I got the impression that the secondary system was setting up some people to fail. We really needed more equitable teaching across deciles.
I just looked for work on Seek and Trade Me and there’s maybe 2 jobs suitable for me, assuming the hours are reasonable. I’d rather die in a ditch in Ukraine than live in a backwater country like NZ. Nobody should pretend we are first world. Look at the poverty here, and the downtrodden fools who work in supermarkets, hardware stores and distribution centres. Being a wigger, acting tough and boasting about made up stories makes you top dog in some industries. NZ is a backwater country and it will never develop into anything that resembles a decent country. In 10 years from now I’ll still be complaining about crappy over-priced rental bedrooms, and jobs that chew through staff every month.
Don’t dismiss supermarket work, I worked in supermarkets for years before I decided to go back to uni and get a degree in what I wanted to do.
Having a job, any job is good. It gives you a schedule and people relying on you, both are good for a sense of purpose, which is what most people are searching for (weather they know it or not). Even if the managers are jerks, which can actually be a boon because it lets you and your underpaid, underappreciated team bond…nothing like a common enemy to come together over.
Having something to do; that is relatively mindless, lets you think about your wants and needs for the future, all the while getting paid. Maybe you decide after a year that this isn’t for you and go and get an apprenticeship and become a plumber or a sparky. Maybe you decide, that actually this is what I want and go into management (and become the jerk). Maybe it takes 2 years, but you will find friends and get paid.
Shaking your fist at the world, will get you no where. Searching for community in the wrong places will just make things worse.
In another post you said
What is wrong with that; I think anti-government thoughts all the time; but I also know a bit of history. Democracy is shit, but it is less shit than the other systems we have tried. Having an opinion is what you get as a thinking individual; I would be far more worried about the zealot that agrees with everything the government does. As long as you vote; then you get to complain, simple as that. If you can’t be arsed voting then you are voting for the winner.
I didn’t vote for National or Act; I disagree with most of what they are proposing. But hey, that is what happened so we have to live with it for the next few years.
deleted by creator
I guess that is one way to read that