I’ve started reading Rene Descartes and I’m intrigued by his idea of “god”.

Descartes is famous for his " I think there for I am." He doubted everything in life to such a degree that he believed the only thing he knew for sure was that when he was thinking then he existed. However, the second thing he deduced is that he knew this world he existed in, real or demonic deception, was imperfect by virtue of the fact that he can doubt it exists. So he knows he exists while thinking and has a conception of imperfections therefore perfection exists and the idea was given to him.

This perfection is god.

God is perfect in all ways. They are beyond deception because a perfect being wouldn’t need to lie, their reason alone for you needing to believe something is enough.

And to me that’s an interesting conception of god. Its a lot more sterile than the normal Christian stance that god is Love which has a emotionally textured connotation. It positions god as having feelings with which we can relate as opposed to Descartes perfection that is simply beyond our reasoning but also (conveniently) not malicious.

As an atheist, god as love makes more sense. God is the feeling of communal love that comes with a religion. People who care for each other for no reason other than because they’re in the same community has always been beautiful to me. God as mislabeled inclusion and comradely behavior males perfect sense.

What is your god or gods like?

  • Paragone@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Sorry, Descartes is simplistic. Also, English mis-renders him.

    Cogito, ergo Sum.

    Think, therefore Am.

    NOT I think, therefore I am.

    The self-reference didn’t exist, in his formulation of the meaning, & that may be insiginificant to Western-religion-formed minds ( Abrahamic, or Atheism ), but it is significant as hell in the paradigms which dig into the inner-reality.


    Being able to doubt the phenomena-ocean that one is embedded-in, in no way “proves” that it is flawed.

    That is … cognitive-narcissism, I think might be the way to phrase it, & nothing else.


    Love ( technically, bodhichitta:

    • UnlimitABLE ( boundless in pertinence )
    • Spontaneous ( you don’t make it happen, you cultivate that it happen, & it happens of its own volition )
    • LovingKindnessCompassionCherishing ( English really mis-fits the energy-substance of it )
    • Completely lacking in insecurity ( the ancient-texts never mentioned this dimension of it, but it was striking )

    ) … is a lower-harmonic of G-D. It is knowable by our-kind ( our category of sentience )


    This is going to be a bit impersonal, but try rolling with it, to see what the resultant-perspective feels like, OK?

    In the beginning is latent-G-D.

    No phenomena.

    Exactly as Hinduism ( Simon Whistler has a vid on things that were discovered waaay earlier than people would assume, & he notes that both germ-theory & The Big Bang were established in Hinduism, centuries ago… he missed that their linear-measurement-system actually goes down to the size of an individual hydrogen atom, as its smallest-unit-of-measure: nothing’s smaller than an atom, right? They nailed that measurement-referent. )

    … stated, OceanOfAllPhenomena/Universe was latent, not extant

    in Hindu parlance, universe was “an egg”.

    Then BAM! Big-Bang!

    Phenomena are existing!!

    OK, but now you’ve got spirits that are wanting to have their own existing, right?

    ChildrenOfG-D/CellsOfG-D/Souls…

    ( jiva, atman, rigpa, eternally-abiding-mind, etc, the label isn’t what’s important, so I’m sticking with “spirits”, for now, since the “Jacob’s Ladder” metaphor uses that term )

    The more-conscious one of these spirits is, the more it can choose its incarnation, the phenomena-it-catches-in, but once caught-in-phenomena, cause->effect/action->reaction/sow->reap/karma law is on it.

    the less-conscious that one of these spirits is, the more it just catches in whatever phenomena it is that caught its slumbering awareness…

    Now Will/Intent is modifying what’s happening, see?

    Same as a stillborn baby doesn’t grow, but a living one does, the neutrons, the protons, the electrons, they are identical between the dead & the growing-living, but the immaterial substances, the entanglement/knowing & the probability-wave/will are present among the living, but not present among the corpses…

    So, ZILLIONS of spirits are competing-for the phenomena in this newborn universe…

    Now you have 3 major categories, see?

    • G-D
    • spirits
    • mere-phenomena

    These little-spirits, they “climb down Jacob’s Ladder”, immersing themselves ( the “baptism” symbol-enactment is actually just representing this soul-immersing-in-universe process, btw, & the “Prodigal Son” parable is about an individual soul/spirit doing it ) in phenomena…

    Trying to have indestructible-happiness by relying on “the kingdom of the world, without/external”, they keep being disappointed, getting sick or aging or getting injured, & dying.

    ( Buddha Gautama’s “the nature of samsara/OceanOfAllPhenomena is suffering” was specifically identifying that externally-based happiness always ends )

    Eventually, these spirits reach their rock-bottom, turn, & commit to earning the inner-mountain, & they begin “climbing”, aka self-conquering…

    Climbing “up Jacob’s Ladder”.

    Eventually they reach sufficient realization to be able to intentionally evolve, within-single-life, instead of only unconsciously evolving, between incarnations/lives…

    They evolve their way until they “return home”, dissolving back into G-D, but not unconscious, now CONSCIOUS, letting-go of all phenomena, & only BEing, forever, then…


    The Hindu statement that “countless lives, throughout endless universes, is just G-D’s way of knowing itself …”

    is to me slightly-misleading:

    It isn’t G-D’s way of knowing itself, rather, it is the CellsOfG-D’s way of knowing their selves.


    What is G-D?

    AWARENESS.

    The OceanOfAllAWAKESouls.

    Individual-lives aren’t its children: they are its grandchildren.

    G-D doesn’t, in any way, revolve around human-lives.

    G-D cultivates its children, souls/spirits, & they evolve, at a timescale that is unimaginably vast.


    Background information:

    There are 3 minds, for our perspective:

    • SurfaceMind is a mirage projected by ego-distortion of the layer below it, & it dissipates every few hours: it is unsteady, & not-deep.
    • LifeMind, which begins forming in conception, & shatters in death, it is operating in our dreams, & it is undertow when we are within SurfaceMind. “Realizing Zen”, in annihilating ego, annihilates the SurfaceMind projection of ego, too: that is why it is sooo much vaster than mere SurfaceMind, according to those who’ve done it.
    • Continuum/Soul/EternallyAbidingMind, which is unkillable, but which dissolves-back-into-origin, when it’s finished participating in the battering-between-phenomena game that unconscious-souls play.

    Also, I’m Empiricist: I don’t give a damn what any “tradition” says, rely on what TESTS to be true!

    Mom had been bringing me up Catholic, but I gained strange memories, in profound-trance…

    years-later, discovered that they were soul-memories from lives as … a hornet/bee/wasp, probably in Central Africa, an utterly-brainless fly, who spent an afternoon trying to understand what white lawn-furniture meant, & a particularly stupid fish, with bad eyesight.

    IT TOOK ME YEARS to adjust to my worldview being instantaneously-force-reconstructed by evidence, the way that understanding hit me…

    The journey continues, obviously…

    There’s a Hindu named Ramana Maharshi.

    To me, he’s Buddha Ramana Maharshi: he earned dissolution into OceanOfAllAwakeSouls & therefore that’s what Buddha/AwakeSoul MEANS, see?

    Anybody who thinks that Buddhism’s all religious stuff, they’ve got to read Huston Smith’s brilliant & profound book “World Religions”.

    ( that book will exercise you, intellectually, almost-certainly. )

    But “Maharshi’s Gospel” is also describing the fundamental-level:

    WHEN meditation gets deep-enough, THEN … there’s no “self” anymore.

    Awareness, but no Self.

    THAT is what G-D is.

    Primordial Awareness, see?

    ( the term Dzogchen is Vajrayana’s rendition of that concept )


    So, why evil, then?

    Because UNconscious-spirits are self-centered, & therefore they want what others have, & more of it…

    I’ve identified that human-evil has at-least these dimensions:

    • narcissism
    • machiavellianism
    • sociopathy-psychopathy
    • nihilism
    • sadism
    • systemic-dishonesty
    • displacement-of-objectivity-for-ideology/prejudice/religion
    • displacement-of-considered-reasoning-for-ideology/prejudice/religion

    Now consider that unconscious-souls are more likely to use these NOT-cherishing-others dimensions in their self-gratification, right?

    THAT is where evil comes from: it is simply souls greedy for self-gratification, ignorant-of-any-others’-value.

    So, the majority of the souls caught in any universe are at the low-end of soul-unconsciousness, & therefore self-centrism is strong.

    & the thinnest-tail of the graph, at the realized-end, is souls who are conscious, & they’re leaving unconscious-catching-in-phenomena…

    Therefore, soul-unconsciousness rules the universe, overall.


    Now do you see why universes exist?

    G-D, latent … doesn’t experience anything, because there isn’t any phenomena to experience.

    But creation is a verb, and unless it is infested completely with awarenesses, there isn’t ano point to it, & … it is infested with spirits. Completely.

    However, once one has creation, then one has to have evolution, so as to segregate the dead/inert/ignorant ( ie matter, the dead-stuff at the end of a world’s life ) from the realizations, evolved-meanings, insights, all the stuff that spirits “can take with one” beyond death", see?

    & when these spirits outgrow caught-in-phenomena, then they … simply dissolve back “home”, to use the “Prodigal Son” parable’s metaphor, into G-D, but AWARE.


    This clarifies that there isn’t any understanding of what G-D is, unless there is simultaneous understanding of what souls are, & the nature & function of what-souls-get-caught-in, ie OceansOfAllPhenomena/universes.

    & the assymetrical evolution: matter dies, & spirit evolves into ultra-life, simultaneously, in equal/opposite directions & measure.


    All the references to “buddha nature” are actually references to a soul’s G-D-nature, its divine/realized nature.

    The reason that Buddha stonewalled the “God” question, is simply that Hindu-religion is addicted to religiosity, & Gautama was squelching that.

    ( as Huston Smith’s book clarifies )

    But OceanOfAllAwakeSouls IS G-D.

    The sticking-point isn’t that OceanOfAllAwakeSouls “doesn’t” exist, rather, it is that “self” doesn’t exist!

    Therefore the entire frame-of-reference of religiosity is bogus, because it all revolves around “self”, & manufactures social-process to keep this “self” entrapped in delusion!

    lmao…


    Anyways, calling G-D “The Brahman Field”, & calling Continuums/Souls “Particles of Brahman” is exactly correct, but it sooo violates White ideology, that it’ll never happen, in my lifetime.

    Which is fine: I’m about done with this world’s ideology-instead-of-considered-reasoning.

    Time to move-on…

    ( yes, it is possible to break a life’s entrapment-in-matter through meditations, & I’m getting closer to breaking the personality “me” : )

    • nagaramOP
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      4 months ago

      Huston Smith’s brilliant & profound book “World Religions”.

      I love adding books to my back log.

      I do generally like the ideas of awareness as laid out in Buddhist thought. I’ve been practicing my own sitting and being aware. So I started following pretty quick.

      To some people, the sublime is god. It is the state of awe that is felt in religious adherence of sorts.

      I really liked this idea of the sublime being awe felt at the end of a dedication to something. An almost divine reward for piety.

      I used to only get that feeling while hiking. A long arduous walk up a mountain to experience the world in an uncomfortable but beautiful way? Sublime really does feel like the best word for such an experience.

      Doing the same but also meditating at the peaks of mountains and the secret grottos. It really is a feeling that I can understand how someone would think there is a god there with them. Some other higher existence seems reasonable.

      And I’m just a guy who likes sitting quietly on mountain tops. And my mountains are shitty Appalachian ones!

    • Paragone@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      BTW, I’m presenting that as testably-true.

      It is.

      ANYone can do the experiments to discover that our Continuums/Souls have memories going waaay beyond our individual-self’s lives.

      There are many books, & some systematic scientific research, on reincarnation-memories.

      The book “The Boy Who Knew Too Much” would probably be the most-accessible, & there is one about a psychiatrist who discovered that his patient was someone who had tangled with his previous life, & there is some massive-anthology-of-evidences-of-accurate-reincarnation-memories…

      but if it is ideologically prohibited that Universe recycle souls, … then … evidence is powerless/irrelevant, right?

      So, evidence simply isn’t going to convince anybody, unless some individual is honestly Empiricist…


      & the experiment of using meditations/concentrations to make one’s health improve, is doable, too.

      Westerners might find that Chopra & Tanzi’s ( Tanzi’s a geneticist ) book “Super-Genes” may give them permission to accept that yes, medical-science has proven that meditation can un-age people…

      Maybe then it’d make more sense…

      Andrew Holecek’s books are on the meditations-in-dreaming & the meditations-for-improving-one’s-surviving-of-death ( making one’s Continuum/Soul more-awake, in its journey ) & that stuff is sooo far outside what Physicalism’s ideology permits, that it’s … contempted, by Western Scientism.

      Nobody’ll spend years doing the experiment, & if anybody claims that the experiment produces actual results … then they ( like me ) are just contempted as mentally-defective.

      Which is fine.

      As Padmasambhava said: aversion is the ONLY antidote to attachment.

      Souls won’t let-go of getting-caught-in-matter until the aversion has destroyed their attachment.

      That’s how everything works!

      Outgrow it!

      That’s the whole point of life: to experience, & to outgrow, trading mattter-life for wisdom-life.

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