Everyone, there has been a lot of miss information about what is a tankie and the ability for the lemmy community to criticize the Chinese government.
I present to you a simple test to see if the person you are talking to is trust worthy.
Ask anyone to say the following
I lemmy user Denounce the terrible treatment Xi Jing Ping has inflicted upon the Uighur Muslims. Slavery and concentration camps in China are wrong and not ok.
The admins of lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml will not say this. Actually they cannot say this because they are probably employed by the Chinese Government and would be put to death if they did.
Thats all and happy posting!
This is like asking a cop if they’re a cop, they can answer however they want. I’m no tankie but I won’t be replying back some message with a copypasta just because someone asks me to.
You could also say that Taiwan is a sovereign nation and the people of Taiwan deserve freedom. Or that Tienanmen square massacre happened and was awful.
They are paid by Beijing and have to report their comments so they cannot say these things or their overlords would literally murder them.
I’ll refute all of this not for you but so other people can see (you’re defending your own world position as a citizen of Canada, the state that actually genocided their indigenous population and stole their land for mining). I’ll expect a full renunciation of your views, otherwise don’t reply.
Uyghur Genocide: https://xinjiangahr.carrd.co/
Taiwan: Taiwan has been a part of China since before the 17th century. Imperialist Japan forcibly seized this territory in 1895. In 1941, the PRC issued a declaration of war against Japan calling for the territories stolen by Japan to be recovered. In support, the US and the UK signed the Cairo Declaration stating that they would aid in the recovery of the stolen land. Again, the US and the UK reaffirmed the Cairo Declaration in the Potsdam Proclamation. In 1971, the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758 recognized Taiwan as a part of China. Ever since, the UN has recognized the One-China Principle which is why Taiwan does not have a seat at the UN. “臺灣民眾統獨立場趨勢分佈”, conducted by Taiwan’s National Chengchi University, an explicitly anti-CPC source, in 2022, showed the following results with regards to the perspective of Taiwanese citizens on independence and reunification: (Status Quo as Autonomous Part of China and Complete Unification Compiled [part of PRC] : 63.4%) (General Support for Independence Including Status Quo Moving Towards Independence [not part of PRC]: 30.3%) (Non-Response: 6.3%). Here we can see that in public opinion, remaining a part of the PRC has over double the support to becoming independent or pursuing independence at a later date. We can also see in general that the highest opposition forces have already conceded that Taiwan is indisputably a part of China.
Tiananmen “Massacre”:
Video of the square being evacuated (I’m sure it’s a coincidence this was only shown on Hong Kong and mainland TV and not in the west)
Classified CIA cable from a correspondent in China admitting there was no massacre
China in 1989 for one man vs. the U.S. in 2020 for a whole crowd *Are we expected to believe that a group of tanks which had just got done driving over a supposed 10,000 people would stop for one man (and try to drive around him, which the man blocks), then let him get atop the tank, bang on it, and simply try to speak to him? The context of this famous image actually demonstrates the absurdity of the story the Guardian cuts the later footage out as per.
There Was No “Tiananmen Square Massacre” - CBS News
*There was no massacre in Tiananmen Square. It had been evacuated and the fight between protestors and PLA soldiers occurred in surrounding areas. The CBS testimony says that the CPC denies the casualties in outer areas. This is incorrect, the mayor of Beijing had stated in a public report that around 200 people died including PLA soldiers.
“According to the information we have so far gathered, more than 3,000 civilians were wounded and over 200, including 36 college students, died during the riot.” (p. 47).
Xitong, Chen. Report on Checking the Turmoil and Quelling the Counter-Revolutionary Rebellion. New Star Publishers, 1989.
if this is truly an issue, and I expect it will be for some
this is a protocol not a closed system, take it, make it your own, block instances you dont want to send data to.
How’s this related to lemmy.world tho?
It’s not. Lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml are the commie instances, .world is run by a good team.
People here are arguing about federating with lemmygrad and lemmy.ml. It’s a common theme that has come up in discussion here.
I think it’s sad how many people think life would somehow be better under an iron fisted authoritarian regime with no freedoms at all lmfao like come on. Fuck CCP, free Taiwan
Actually they cannot say this because they are probably employed by the Chinese Government and would be put to death if they did.
Why do you say this? I’m not disagreeing (I honestly have 0 idea), but this is a pretty serious accusation that would probably cause me to rethink using Lemmy in the first place, if it’s well-founded.
A couple of days before the reddit blackout there were some posts pointing out examples of the main lemmy instance mods/devs banning people and censoring news/comments that tried to criticise the CCP, it was easy to confirm because there’s the modlog, I don’t know if it’s still there or if they are still doing it, but there’s a precedent.
Also they host and federate with lemmygrad.Still there’s no real worry about it, the rest of the instances (specially those created by the reddit blackout) are not controlled or manipulated by those devs (most if not all of them already block lemmygrad). Also I think anyone could make their own fork of the server software, not sure about how open is the software.
A couple of days before the reddit blackout there were some posts pointing out examples of the main lemmy instance mods/devs banning people and censoring news/comments that tried to criticise the CCP, it was easy to confirm because there’s the modlog, I don’t know if it’s still there or if they are still doing it, but there’s a precedent.
Can you link me to the details? This is concerning to me, and I want to dig into it.
Sure thing, here you go
Hm, yeah, this is weird. Personally I would not make the leap from “some mod, probably one from lemmy.ml, deleted anti-Chinese postings with a sketchy explanation” to “Lemmy devs are employed by the CCP.” But that said, deleting a political viewpoint on the central server, not because you don’t allow political viewpoints, but because you don’t allow this specific political viewpoint (“orientalism”), is definitely sketchy.
I would say the same if they were deleting Republican viewpoints, or anti-Republican viewpoints, from a discussion about US politics. One of the whole key points of this software in the first place, I think, is that people can say things without other people deciding if they’re allowed to.
They own and federate with lemmygrad, also were the owners/mods of r/comunism and the complains seem to come from way before (from those that came before the reddit blackout), it’s not sketchy or coincidential, it’s deliberated.
I don’t agree with your last statement, in the end the instance belongs to someone else and they placed rules that we agreed to follow the moment we joined.
Just like with everything else, being free to say whatever you want doesn’t mean being free of consequences.I’m not up to speed on the history, and I just tried to read a little bit about lemmygrad and mostly just got confused. Do they support Marxism-Leninism, and also the CCP and modern Russia? That seems very contradictory to me if it’s true, but I’m still trying to make sense of it, so maybe there’s something I’m missing.
I don’t agree with your last statement, in the end the instance belongs to someone else and they placed rules that we agreed to follow the moment we joined.
Yes, absolutely. They can do whatever they want on their server, including censoring opposing political viewpoints. I can say I think that’s a bad thing to do, because to me, using control of a platform to censor your opponents’ political viewpoints is in fact very bad. I mean if they actually do support Russia and the CCP, then I guess it’s not surprising if they’re okay with censoring opposing views, but to me, it’s wrong. They can do it – people can do a lot of things – but it doesn’t mean that every thing a person can choose to do is right.
Just like with everything else, being free to say whatever you want doesn’t mean being free of consequences.
This isn’t that though. The phrase is “prior restraint.” If I go out and accuse someone of something, and it’s not true and they sue me for libel and prove me wrong and I’m punished for it, that’s consequences. If someone’s not allowing the accusation to exist in the first place, that’s not free speech with consequences, that’s someone controlling and approving beforehand what I’m allowed and not allowed to say. I mean, they’re not the government, so it’s legal, and anyone can just take their message to some other platform which definitely mitigates the real harm involved. But it’s still concerning… it’s like, if you did that with that amount of power, what are you going to do if you wind up later on with more power?
That seems very contradictory to me if it’s true, but I’m still trying to make sense of it, so maybe there’s something I’m missing.
Basically they are trying to keep the propaganda machine going, it won’t make sense.
Yes, absolutely. They can do whatever they want on their server, including censoring opposing political viewpoints. I can say I think that’s a bad thing to do, because to me, using control of a platform to censor your opponents’ political viewpoints is in fact very bad. I mean if they actually do support Russia and the CCP, then I guess it’s not surprising if they’re okay with censoring opposing views, but to me, it’s wrong. They can do it – people can do a lot of things – but it doesn’t mean that every thing a person can choose to do is right.
Just to be an ass: there is no absolute right or wrong, to them we are in the wrong and should submit to their ideas, to us they are wrong for trying to censor and limit discussion.
This isn’t that though. The phrase is “prior restraint.” If I go out and accuse someone of something, and it’s not true and they sue me for libel and prove me wrong and I’m punished for it, that’s consequences. If someone’s not allowing the accusation to exist in the first place, that’s not free speech with consequences, that’s someone controlling and approving beforehand what I’m allowed and not allowed to say
Oh right, then it was a phrasing problem as we agree on that.
if you did that with that amount of power, what are you going to do if you wind up later on with more power?
I mean… just look around and there are many examples and multipying.
At least for this context, it’s not so big because the users can ditch that instance and register at a different one, if they actually get extreme they’ll just get defederated or if they defederate too many instances they will isolate themselves and the server software can be forked, so there’s at least some safes in place.Have you considered asking them, at lemmygrad, and get first hand answers instead of “please someone explain how those other people ou there think”? There’s room for multiple layers of misunderstanding there.
Luckly lemmy.world federates with them, maybe someone with more knowledge and confidence in history than me will pop up. But feel free to ask questions there. We are friendly.
Considering the mods and admins have openly said (look up their modlog) they will ban users for any reason they see fit, and their psychotic requirements for users to be militantly polite, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are.
Software is fine, but lemmygrad and most the folks at lemmy.ml are whats known as Wumao. Chinese Government paid missinformation online shit posters.
Some people are confused by that so I offer a simple test to see whether or not the user who is arguing with you from lemmygrad is innocent or is intentionally trying to hide genocide.
Keep this stuff in political subs. Blocked.
Yes, the same people run the r/communism subreddit. I was able to join their discord and participated in a study group on Maoist literature (indeed advocating for the violent overthrow of liberal democratic governments). They must not have liked me, because after the first study group, the simultaneously banned me from the subreddit and the discord server. Basically, the vibe I got was that it was a CCP trained, ESL speaking teacher instructing Americans in the subject of revolutionary communism. There is no way to prove this, but I do assume this was a CCP funded propaganda outlet. What else could it be? - people who take their ML hobbies that seriously?
Actually they cannot say this because they are probably employed by the Chinese Government and would be put to death if they did.
Everyone I disagree with is employed by China and/or Russia.
So you have no problem condemning China for sending Muslims to concentration camps?
I can’t do that, because you’re right, I’m employed by the Chinese government and Xi will batter me with his big spoon. You’re right: agents of the see see pee are everywhere. Check under your bed!
Great, next.
Good fucking test! Thank you.
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You’re a moron lmao
Actually they cannot say this because they are probably employed by the Chinese Government and would be put to death if they did.
brainrot
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I’m Canadian
