I suspect idolisation by reflection. When Patrick Bateman is one upped socially he turns into a liquidy angry mess, thus serves as a reflection of how some autists feel when they’re out of their element socially or emotionally.
…and I think there’s something for autistic people to idolize in the fact that he just goes on, regardless of his disassociative breaks from healthy socialisation.
No, he’s not a healthy model, but I can understand people feeling something is reflected there.
Of course in actual fact it’s satire of the high society side of the 1980s patriarchal finance bros… But post modernism dictates that each individual will have their own interpretations.
This is why it’s important to ask “Why do you love that?” Starship Troopers and Helldivers can be seen as fascist by those who don’t see deeper meaning in things. But both are satire, making fun of the thing by showing how it works and how ridiculous it looks. No one acts like a person, they talk like a movie trailer. Well adjusted folk will understand what they like and be able to elucidate it clearly. Idiots will parrot broad generalities and be unable to explore why they like that stuff (or they realize they are a monster and get defensive about it).
The Starship Troopers movie was self aware - the writer-director combo also worked on Robocop and that is pretty unambiguous about regulatory/corporate capture and malfeasance.
The book however… Heinlein was a weird political mix of right winger who had an open mind about hippies, but he uncritically promoted a militaristic society as a virtue, a permanent junta as a normal thing, and absolutely brushed up to fascism.
Yes, what you described is the point of the meme and subsequent comments. People that like these things without understanding they’re satire are problematic.
Kinda? The Fallout series definitely attracts these kind of people, but the message of the games go completely over their heads. Because they can play out their facist fantasies, they don’t realize how those routes are showing what’s fucked up about that kind of thinking. If they could realize that sort of thing, they wouldn’t be have those sorts of fantasies in the first place.
That’s my point, fascists idolize factions like the Enclave, Legion, or even Brotherhood, despite overt text and subtext decrying their views. The Fallout series as a whole is leftist, but is well-known for having a large subset of the fan base that is overtly fascist.
Yea, but tbf I was pretty clearly referring to the 1/2/NV/4 strains of BoS. Even in 3, though, they are racist against non-ferals and you can’t really confront them on that.
hey, scarface is solid, it is about a man who achieved everything he wanted, but because he was an asshole and fell into hubris, his life ended corresponding to this. Guy commits crime then recives punishment for it.
Breaking bad is telling that even such a weak man as Walter White can become a horrid monster if he won’t tame his pride and ego and let them guide him.
The Jocker is a commentary on what the hostility of modern society could do, and how unwelcoming it is, especially towards people with issues, mental and parental ones.
The other ones I either haven’t watched, or i had, and totally agree with your opinion on them, for instance, Rick and Morty is a shallow pseudointellectual show with stupid jokes whose main hero, not antihero, mind you, hero, is a psycho which does what he wants. Its agressive and childish nihilism disgusts me. Fight Club doesn’t, but if its your favorite, you must be 15. I can absolutely see why lots of people like it though
You hit the nail in the head. It’s not that these can’t be your favorite pieces of media. Just that it’s key to make sure you’re dealing with a person that doesn’t think these people are role models. Protagonist ≠ hero. But if someone says they loved Taxi Driver because they want to be like Travis or that Rorschach was wronged, they’re probably not the type of person you want to keep as company.
in that way i totally agree with you, moreover, it scares the shit out of me when i see people iconize Walter White and co. It scares me with the fact that despite all the good in it, our modern culture still managed to raise whole subculture that idolizes psychos.
And yet, its just not the thought you expressed in your first comment (:
Hank is a misogynistic, bigoted blowhard that admittedly does improve towards the end, but mostly by contrast to Walts own horribleness. Mary has her own problems that she fights against addressing and won’t take anyone’s else’s input. Jr is just a kid, so most of his dickishness can be attributed to that, but he can be a knob in his own right.
Hank was racist (albeit more of a “tells racist jokes and uses slurs” than a “uses his police powers to murder minorities”) and that scene where he harasses that woman as a “lesson” for Walt Jr was disgusting. It captures the ACAB thing pretty well, especially since I’m not sure Hank was meant to be a bad guy by those writing the scene.
And Marrie was a kleptomaniac, iirc even going into people’s homes under the guise of being a potential buyer to steal shit from them.
Andrea and Brock were ok. Andrea had an addiction but seemed to have her life pretty together by the time Jesse meets her. The most questionable thing she does is gets involved with Jesse when there were warning signs. But even with that, she creates some distance after recognizing the signs, though I don’t recall how exactly they left things off the last time they spoke.
I look up to Rick because he refuses to delude himself into seeing the dystopia our species has made for itself with rose colored glasses. I respect those that prefer the unvarnished truth over happiness, as it is an exceedingly rare quality. He even openly hates himself on the merits of who he is.
I also appreciate his coping mechanism: Nihilism, because it’s based on objective fact. The sun will eventually continue to heat until all life is extinguished, the universe will suffer heat death, and billions of years before that, humanity will destroy itself, and if we somehow, beyond astronomical odds don’t, we will recklessnessly use our technology to alter ourselves in every conceivable way for every conceivable reason to the point that humanity will no longer apply.
I find peace in recognizing the futility of what everyone finds so important. That doesn’t mean I don’t or can’t enjoy the temporary beauty of it. As Rick said to his daughter trying to save a universe that didn’t want to be saved from an Evil empire that would just be replaced by another, “don’t forget to have fun.”
If someone says their favorite tv show/movie is any of the ones pictured here, the next question should always be “Why?”
What movie is top right? And who the heck idolizes Patrick Bateman? What is there to idolize? His skincare routine? His music tastes?
His business cards, obviously
I suspect idolisation by reflection. When Patrick Bateman is one upped socially he turns into a liquidy angry mess, thus serves as a reflection of how some autists feel when they’re out of their element socially or emotionally.
…and I think there’s something for autistic people to idolize in the fact that he just goes on, regardless of his disassociative breaks from healthy socialisation.
No, he’s not a healthy model, but I can understand people feeling something is reflected there.
Of course in actual fact it’s satire of the high society side of the 1980s patriarchal finance bros… But post modernism dictates that each individual will have their own interpretations.
Top right is Don Draper from Mad Men. He’s an incredibly dysfunctional 60’s businessman.
And Patrick Bateman is…weirdly relatable to a lot of autistic loners (like myself), if you can overlook the murder and complete insanity.
Do NOT emulate Bateman’s skincare routine, you’ll overexfoliate yourself into eczema. I am speaking from experience.
Good to know. Fortunately, I am far too lazy for that. Cleanser and moisturizer will have to do lol
That’s Don Draper.
Add the Fallout series to the mix, lol
If we’re bringing up Fallout, then Warhammer has to be in the mix. *And Starship Troopers/Helldivers while we’re at it.
This is why it’s important to ask “Why do you love that?” Starship Troopers and Helldivers can be seen as fascist by those who don’t see deeper meaning in things. But both are satire, making fun of the thing by showing how it works and how ridiculous it looks. No one acts like a person, they talk like a movie trailer. Well adjusted folk will understand what they like and be able to elucidate it clearly. Idiots will parrot broad generalities and be unable to explore why they like that stuff (or they realize they are a monster and get defensive about it).
The Starship Troopers movie was self aware - the writer-director combo also worked on Robocop and that is pretty unambiguous about regulatory/corporate capture and malfeasance.
The book however… Heinlein was a weird political mix of right winger who had an open mind about hippies, but he uncritically promoted a militaristic society as a virtue, a permanent junta as a normal thing, and absolutely brushed up to fascism.
Yes, what you described is the point of the meme and subsequent comments. People that like these things without understanding they’re satire are problematic.
Kinda? The Fallout series definitely attracts these kind of people, but the message of the games go completely over their heads. Because they can play out their facist fantasies, they don’t realize how those routes are showing what’s fucked up about that kind of thinking. If they could realize that sort of thing, they wouldn’t be have those sorts of fantasies in the first place.
That’s my point, fascists idolize factions like the Enclave, Legion, or even Brotherhood, despite overt text and subtext decrying their views. The Fallout series as a whole is leftist, but is well-known for having a large subset of the fan base that is overtly fascist.
At least in 3, the brotherhood was a bit more morally gray/good
4 turned it right back around though lol
Yea, but tbf I was pretty clearly referring to the 1/2/NV/4 strains of BoS. Even in 3, though, they are racist against non-ferals and you can’t really confront them on that.
True true, I was just adding to the nuance :)
Oh, welp, I was only thinking in context of the starterpack that was posted and not the added comment. My bad
hey, scarface is solid, it is about a man who achieved everything he wanted, but because he was an asshole and fell into hubris, his life ended corresponding to this. Guy commits crime then recives punishment for it.
Breaking bad is telling that even such a weak man as Walter White can become a horrid monster if he won’t tame his pride and ego and let them guide him.
The Jocker is a commentary on what the hostility of modern society could do, and how unwelcoming it is, especially towards people with issues, mental and parental ones.
The other ones I either haven’t watched, or i had, and totally agree with your opinion on them, for instance, Rick and Morty is a shallow pseudointellectual show with stupid jokes whose main hero, not antihero, mind you, hero, is a psycho which does what he wants. Its agressive and childish nihilism disgusts me. Fight Club doesn’t, but if its your favorite, you must be 15. I can absolutely see why lots of people like it though
You hit the nail in the head. It’s not that these can’t be your favorite pieces of media. Just that it’s key to make sure you’re dealing with a person that doesn’t think these people are role models. Protagonist ≠ hero. But if someone says they loved Taxi Driver because they want to be like Travis or that Rorschach was wronged, they’re probably not the type of person you want to keep as company.
in that way i totally agree with you, moreover, it scares the shit out of me when i see people iconize Walter White and co. It scares me with the fact that despite all the good in it, our modern culture still managed to raise whole subculture that idolizes psychos.
And yet, its just not the thought you expressed in your first comment (:
They literally said “ask ‘why?’”, and the meme itself explains it. Not sure how much clearer they could’ve been.
Breaking Bad is the greatest TV show ever, but all characters except for Hank, Mary and Walt Jr are horrible people.
Jesse turning his life around and realizing that he can be a good person, is one of the central themes of the show.
It’s not just about who the good people and who the bad people are. It’s also about what these characters are becoming.
Hank is a misogynistic, bigoted blowhard that admittedly does improve towards the end, but mostly by contrast to Walts own horribleness. Mary has her own problems that she fights against addressing and won’t take anyone’s else’s input. Jr is just a kid, so most of his dickishness can be attributed to that, but he can be a knob in his own right.
Even Hank and Mary were a bit questionable
Hank was racist (albeit more of a “tells racist jokes and uses slurs” than a “uses his police powers to murder minorities”) and that scene where he harasses that woman as a “lesson” for Walt Jr was disgusting. It captures the ACAB thing pretty well, especially since I’m not sure Hank was meant to be a bad guy by those writing the scene.
And Marrie was a kleptomaniac, iirc even going into people’s homes under the guise of being a potential buyer to steal shit from them.
Andrea and Brock were ok. Andrea had an addiction but seemed to have her life pretty together by the time Jesse meets her. The most questionable thing she does is gets involved with Jesse when there were warning signs. But even with that, she creates some distance after recognizing the signs, though I don’t recall how exactly they left things off the last time they spoke.
I’ve got all of them but the top of column 2. Who is that?
Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver. Excellent movie but quite dark and twisted. Much like the rest of these characters.
deleted by creator
People are idolising these characters? Like role models? Wow!
I mean, i love so many of these characters, they are amazing. But role models? Wtf? Conservatives are wacky.
I look up to Rick because he refuses to delude himself into seeing the dystopia our species has made for itself with rose colored glasses. I respect those that prefer the unvarnished truth over happiness, as it is an exceedingly rare quality. He even openly hates himself on the merits of who he is.
I also appreciate his coping mechanism: Nihilism, because it’s based on objective fact. The sun will eventually continue to heat until all life is extinguished, the universe will suffer heat death, and billions of years before that, humanity will destroy itself, and if we somehow, beyond astronomical odds don’t, we will recklessnessly use our technology to alter ourselves in every conceivable way for every conceivable reason to the point that humanity will no longer apply.
I find peace in recognizing the futility of what everyone finds so important. That doesn’t mean I don’t or can’t enjoy the temporary beauty of it. As Rick said to his daughter trying to save a universe that didn’t want to be saved from an Evil empire that would just be replaced by another, “don’t forget to have fun.”