- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
Ireland, Spain and Norway have announced they will formally recognise a Palestinian state on 28 May, triggering an immediate response from Israel, which said it would retaliate by recalling its ambassadors from Dublin, Madrid and Oslo, and withholding vital funds from the Palestinian Authority.
The three European governments made the long-awaited announcements in coordinated moves on Wednesday morning that they said were intended to support a two-state solution and foster peace in the Middle East.
“We are going to recognise Palestine for many reasons and we can sum that up in three words: peace, justice and consistency,” Spain’s prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, told the parliament in Madrid, to applause. “We have to make sure that the two-state solution is respected and there must be mutual guarantees of security.”
They are saying they hope it will lead to the end of Israel.
Or at a minimum, getting Israel out of the internationally recognized Palestinian Territories (West bank, Gaza) and allowing Palestinians to self-rule.
That’s an intrepretation only possible if you ignore most of that post.
The logical interpretation after reading the entire post is that they hope this will lead to the end of Appartheid in Israel.
Or are you saying that there is no possible way for Israel to exist either than as an ultra racist etnostate that systemically discriminates against a part of its population based on their etnicity? Because that’s the only way you could logically claim that Israel without Appartheid would not exist.
Your interpretation is only possible if you didn’t read the post fully. It said it wanted to dismantle the apartheid regime, not to dismantle apartheid. The regime is the Israeli government.
Of course it’s the Israeli Government, same as the South African Appartheid government had to be dismantled to end Appartheid there, the Fascist Government in Greece had to be dismantled to bring Democracy there and the Communist Government in Poland had to be dismantled to bring Democracy there.
It’s hardly big fat news that the Zionists have to go for there to be peace in the region.
Since “country” is not at all the same as “regime”, wanting the end of a regime is not at all the same as wanting the end of the country, as the current status of all the countries I mentioned in my examples above (all alive and well) shows.
Your claim that people hoped for the end of Israel (the country) is not supported by you pointing out that those people want to dismantle the regime, because they’re quite different things and the latter absolutelly can be dismantled without the “end” of the former (in my examples above the countries didn’t even suffer, quite the contrary: all those countries are better of now that those regimes were dismantled than they were before).
Removed by mod
Dismantle verb
To get rid of a system or organization, usually over a period of time:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/dismantle
Except this guy specifically said he hopes the current Israel is dismantled. At best they could be hoping that Israel changes into a better government, but I don’t think that’s their meaning.
No where does that say dismantling Israel.
So who are they talking about then?
Dismantling Israel as an apartheid state and replacing it with a secular binational state that has equal rights for Palestinians and Israelis?
Well that can’t be what he thinks, I listed that as an option in my original response
But he clearly said
So what entity which has colonized Palestine for 76 years, but isn’t the current Israel does he mean?
EDIT: Words have meaning, if the words you use don’t mean what you mean, then admit that you used the wrong words and be more clear or else people must assume you mean what you say. Coming in after the OP and attributing meaning that they didn’t give doesn’t suddenly change what they said. A reminder, the original post was;
Dismantling the regime. If someone said we need to eliminate the Chinese Communist regime, would you think they want to destroy the entirety of China?
I know I said we need to be clear in our language, but since we were talking about a “regime” from the beginning I didn’t think I had to continuously spell it out throughout the discussion. Yes, we’re talking about whatever regime is being referenced, but again the last guy said it wasn’t Israel.
Regime Noun
a particular government or a system or method of government:
Your comparison between China and Israel is really terrible. If we’re being super duper clear on what a regime is, it’s the system of government. Israel is a parliamentary democracy, all citizens over the age of 18 can vote. Since the regime is democratically elected it’s kinda hard to differentiate the Israeli people from their Regime. China on the other hand is a unitary one-party state, if you’re not in the party and at the right level of the party then you don’t have any voice. It’s a lot easier to separate the people of China from their government.
So you do agree that Israel is a colonizer country?
I don’t really like the use of the word colonizer in this context, it just doesn’t fit right with me. The definition technically fits, but colonization to me is more like an invasive species moving in and slowly overwhelming the native population. This is more akin to what we were seeing with settlers moving into the West Bank.
What’s going on in Gaza is more akin to straight up scorched earth takeover and land theft. Hell, calling it an invasion and genocide feels more accurate.
I never said I was ok with what Israel is doing, my argument was on the meaning of words. Leftists in general are really terrible about saying what they mean, because they don’t seem to know the meaning of the words they use.
The cycle seems to go like this:
I am sorry for the hard time you have here. People just want to see their believes confirmed.
Hey, I appreciate your response! I totally understand that people want to have their feelings confirmed in such a space, but that’s also why I am critical in it. In this sort of environment the discussion is almost as much emotion and feeling as it is the words actually used. A sort of slang can develop where we can understand what each other means without the words we use being truly accurate. The problem with that is that this environment is also an echo chamber, we put meaning onto things that we want it to mean because it also confirms our beliefs.
This leads to situations where it’s impossible to differentiate between radical statements and reasonable statements. A good example is the chant, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” When both extremists and normies use the saying it becomes hard to differentiate them. Another example is the Gadsden flag, on it’s own there is nothing wrong with the flag with a deep historical heritage, but when the far right started using it as a symbol any rational centrist or leftist immediately stopped using it for fear of association. Back in school I had a friend who had the flag hanging on their wall, but around 2012 they specifically stated that they had taken it down because it had been co-opted by the far right.