• Pahonix Warigget
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      467 months ago

      The public is going to pay them regardless. The money for wages has to come from what customer’s spend. Being said, I agree with you wholeheartedly because tipping is a leverage point that enables a lot of racism, sexism and sexual harassment.

      • Iron Lynx
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        7 months ago

        I think the lost nuance is that the previous guy means that with tips, the public pays for tips directly.

        You’re technically correct, the public, by buying food and service, is paying the company, creating a pool of money from which the costs of business are to be paid, ideally including staff in full. And currently, wait staff has to be paid by the customer directly.

        (This mostly holds for most of the US, in many places, it does work according to the more ideal model)

        • @el_abuelo@lemmy.ml
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          57 months ago

          You wanna know what’s even more lost nuanced? the fact that a customer paying your salary via tip is after they’ve paid taxes. So let’s say they tip $1 - in my country that means they had to earn $2 before tax (assuming the customer is a billy big bollocks higher-rate tax payer).

          But what about if the employer pays the server instead? well now we’re talking…when the emplopyer pays the server, it does so PRE-TAX. That is to say they can pay the server $1 and in order to do so they only had to earn $1. While if they banked that $1 as profit, they would pay tax on the $1 first and so see less of it (let’s call it $0.80). Mind you, that does mean that the service worker now needs to pay $1 on that income…but surely they would declare their tips anyway and pay the tax either way? right? riiiiight?

          Long and the short of it is - the cheapest way for the server to get $1 is for the employer to pay it to them and pass the cost on to the customer. The cost to the employer is what the company would have received post-tax for that $1 which as we said earlier was $0.80. The server got the $1, the employer is not gaining or losing anything, and the customer is only paying $0.80 which means they only had to earn $1.60 instead of $2. Everyone wins, except the tax man doesn’t win quite as much as he was winning before. Cry me a river.

        • @Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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          7 months ago

          This, so much this. The average American dies on the hill of defending institutions that were literally created for no reason other than to fuck black people over and i’m so sick of it.

      • @SupraMario@lemmy.world
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        -107 months ago

        Unfortunately most wait staff do not want to work for just hourly, it’s been tried a lot and almost always places have major issues with getting waiters. The majority of them like the tipping system.

  • @Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I used to work as a line cook. The waitresses would give us a percentage of their tips which was nice. But really, we understood that it was much better to cook the food than be the one dealing with the idiot customers and rude Karens, so they deserved that tip. The girls would be all smiles, and as soon as they’d walk in the kitchen they’d let out all the rage. Then back to smiling once they go back on the floor, whereas the cooks could just behave like the animals we were, and nobody would see us.

    • @Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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      327 months ago

      No, they deserved to be paid appropriately by their employer and the customers deserve to have a predictable bill, not one based on the quality of the service they received or the pity they have for the employee.

      I’ve worked for tip for 10 years, tipped jobs shouldn’t exist.

    • dealing with the idiot customers and rude Karens

      Of course the customers behave as entitled brats because they’re paying for the entitlement with a tip that can be withheld for any reason. It creates a rage inducing power dynamic.

      • @milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
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        57 months ago

        So, is that basically why Americans like tipping culture? Because it lets you feel the rush of being in control of someone for money? The rush of being the abusive partner in an abusive relationship?

        • @Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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          -17 months ago

          Yep, exactly the same shit why liberals were OK with Nazi Germany. Sure some of them they weren’t on board with the mass killings (but lets not mince words here, a lot of them were) but once they got to wield a fraction of that power for themselves, they stopped complaining.

    • @buddascrayon@lemmy.world
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      67 months ago

      Exactly! I mean just watch the movie “Waiting”. It is such an accurate portrayal that it should be classified as a documentary.

      • Pahonix Warigget
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        67 months ago

        18 years in restaurants checking in. I was a bartender when waiting came out. The only thing they got wrong was that we didn’t do The Game, but we started to after we saw the movie.

  • Decoy321
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    587 months ago

    There’s a separate level of unfairness here:

    Right side is making $16-$25 per hour.

    Left side has an hourly rate that’s almost always less than minimum wage. This is allowed because of the assumed tip income.

    • @hockeyboss77@lemmy.world
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      437 months ago

      Depends on what state you live in. For example, CA requires wait staff to be paid at least minimum wage. Also, many cooks are also receiving minimum wage.

      • @SupraMario@lemmy.world
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        -17 months ago

        All wait staff have to be paid minimum wage, it’s a federal law. If they don’t make minimum wage in tips, then the employer has to make up the difference.

        • @Mudkipology@lemmy.world
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          57 months ago

          Which is a massive pain in the ass to actually track and prove, and employees who do it don’t tend to stick around for long. Especially if you (like me) live in an at-will employment state where no reason for dismissal is required.

    • Hot Saucerman
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      77 months ago

      Left side has an hourly rate that’s almost always less than minimum wage. This is allowed because of the assumed tip income.

      This part depends on the state, thankfully. Seems phased out on most of the West coast, to my knowledge. I know it’s still pretty widespread in the south.

      • @Illegal_Prime@dmv.social
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        47 months ago

        Being phased out in DC too. That said, the transition period has been rough, many places are now using service fees to cover the costs, which makes sense but the fact that it’s still so inconsistent causes great annoyance.

        Then again, so do tipping expectations, what exactly am I paying for? Can I opt out? What legally constitutes a tipped employee? WHY ARE THERE TIPPING OPTIONS AT FAST FOOD PLACES NOW!?

        Overall, a clusterfuck that I’m happy to see is dying out, (I’ve also heard that it’s racially and sexually unjust.)

    • N-E-N
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      57 months ago

      Here in Ontario everyone has to be paid minimum wage but, tips are still very expected. Kinda bugs me since they prob make more than I do lol

      • PP_BOY_
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        7 months ago

        Kinda bugs me since they prob make more than I do lol

        No idea what it’s like up north but the highest hourly job I’ve ever had was serving tables in college. Over a week it averaged out to $25-45/hr depending on the season and some other factors. Did it for about a year before the stress and irregular hours made it not even worth that much money. But it definitely changed how I perceived wait staff.

      • @Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        Waiters where I used to work were some of the best paid employees in the place even when including directors that were making 130k+… if they had included all their tip on their paycheck (instead of the default 10% of every bill under their name) they would have ended up getting a 0$ paycheck every two weeks and would have still owed taxes at the end of the year… and that’s while making above minimum wage from the get go…

        • N-E-N
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          27 months ago

          Yea I know some servers who make great money

          I’m only slightly above minimum wage with no tips so, pressure to leave 15-20% tips def bugs me

  • @CarlCook@feddit.de
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    507 months ago

    Is this a USA-thing? In Europe tips are most usually split between front and back of the house.

    • fullstopslash
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      317 months ago

      In the USA there is a “minimum” wage, and a tip wage. The tip wage means your employer pays you $2.17/hr and you make nearly all of your income from the kindness of strangers. It’s mindnumbinly aweful.

    • @Nurgle@lemmy.world
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      87 months ago

      Some places do pool a percentage of tips and pay them out to the kitchen and/or bar. Usually kitchen is paid more than waitstaff, and waitstaff is also likely to be cut if it’s slow, so may get less hours. Some states allow employers to pay tip based workers below minimum wage.

    • @somethingp@lemmy.world
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      77 months ago

      Also to clarify, the rationale for tip based workers having a lower default minimum wage is that if they do not come up to the regular minimum wage with their tips+salary, then employer has to make up the difference. But usually they end up making more than minimum wage with the tips.

      • @Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        And you won the lotto if an employer actually supplements your tips. When you go a day with no customers.

        • @somethingp@lemmy.world
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          27 months ago

          If you’re reporting your income on your taxes then your employer literally cannot be doing that. Sure it gets averaged over your pay period, but you should still be making at least minimum wage.

    • Che Banana
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      47 months ago

      When I was in Seattle the servers got min. state wage (15? at the time) & you could not split your tip unless the other person had interaction with the guest (no cooks got tips unless they did tableside cooking). Our best server for one restaurant group rolled in last, got 300+ tips, and was cut first- usually a 3.5/4.5hr shift. Kenny was a fucking legend.

  • @CoggyMcFee@lemmy.world
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    337 months ago

    I see the corollary to this as the actual injustice, i.e. “the dish was bad so you get a low tip”, because the server can’t control the quality of the cooking and yet depends on the tip, whereas the cook actually gets a full wage no matter what.

    • body_by_make
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      77 months ago

      I’m starting this off with I hate tipping culture, but it’s required as an American, so I tip based on the service I receive from the server, not the food I eat. I rationally know they don’t control that. I assume most people do this, except OP who apparently tips waiters based on the food quality for some reason.

      • LegionEris [she/her]
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        57 months ago

        Yeah, I’ll give good tips for good service of mediocre food. The Alamo has some of the hardest working servers in the industry. I don’t care how good or bad the food is (usually good, but the overall amazing buffalo cauliflower can be inconsistent) if you crawl on the floor to give me my bill without blocking the movie for the person next to me, you get a good tip.

  • Hot Saucerman
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    7 months ago

    The jobs we tip and the jobs we don’t really don’t make a whole lot of sense, honestly.

    Fifteen years ago, working master control at a small local television station, someone called in just furious that a baseball game their TV schedule said would be on was not on. It was a TV station, ads paid the bills, but the person felt really entitled to baseball over free over-the-air television. This wasn’t the only time this happened, but this has always been the one I’ve remembered most vividly, because the guy was just so angry, like he’d had his whole day planned around this.

    I remember thinking about tipping jobs at the time, and how I was earning federal minimum wage to do this relatively skilled job (edit: not saying waiting/chefing are unskilled), and people were harassing me because the wrong thing was on the TV. With all due respect, I was master control, I literally had the finalized schedule in front of me. Nobody was tipping me when the thing they wanted on TV was on. I mean, I didn’t expect it since ads paid for everything, but the entitlement of some people for something they essentially didn’t pay for was so weird to me, and made me think of the disparity.

  • @negativeyoda@lemmy.world
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    287 months ago

    Every reputable place I ever served at had front of house tip out the service staff.

    Can we leave these shit memes by people who’ve never worked in the food industry (but get butthurt social conventions suggest you tip) and the resulting awful cavalcade of tired, predictable responses back on reddit?

    • @pec@sh.itjust.works
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      137 months ago

      That’s your experience.

      I have worked in very reputable places and none of that tip would reach the cooks. If we were lucky they would pay us a beer at the club later. I think it’s regional though. I know in Quebec waiters won’t share because the government assume they get 15% tip from everything bill and taxes them accordingly.

      • @negativeyoda@lemmy.world
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        37 months ago

        Tips are imputed and taxed from sales in the US too.

        That sucks. I did work at one place where the percentages weren’t set and it made for some friction because not every server tipped out BOH/ support at the same rate. The best places I worked set minimum percentages (ie, 5% to kitchen, 3% to dishwashers, etc which ended up being 15% of your sales) and got could go above if you wanted such as if the kitchen saved your ass. It made for better morale. I worked at a couple places where it was a free for all and BOH/FOH were always fighting and turnover was high

      • @Barndog53@lemm.ee
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        27 months ago

        Doesn’t sound very reputable. Sounds like a Buffalo Wild Wings.

        I’ve been in the restaurant industry for over 15 years and the least I ever had to tip out to the kitchen was 2.5%. Never, did they not get tipped out.

        Also, I’m not complaining, I love the back of house, but don’t spread bullshit cause you had a bad go

        • @Duplodicus@sh.itjust.works
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          17 months ago

          I have worked at a Michelin one star and a two star and neither tipped the kitchen.

          Your experiences sound great but they are not the norm that I experienced.

      • @negativeyoda@lemmy.world
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        17 months ago

        Haven’t been in that industry in years but I made more doing that than I do in my current job a decade later.

        Service chews your body up so I left

        • CyclohexaneM
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          17 months ago

          You made good money because of guilt tripping people into tipping 20% instead of demanding your employer pays you, and crying on social media about how waiters make almost nothing.

          The entire reason people tip is out of sympathy, and restaurant workers really weaponized that. Instead of having trouble with your employer not paying you, you joined forces with them.

          For the record I tip reasonably, but I find it crazy that restaurant workers do this.

          • @negativeyoda@lemmy.world
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            -27 months ago

            Hah. No.

            I guarantee I think (and thought) about tipping a fuck of a lot less than you do. I’d get stiffed on occasion, but in general my job was to allow customers to relax and facilitate they have a good time. It always shook out by the end of the night and I barely kept track of who tipped what unless it was really outside of standard deviation one direction or the other. It’s gauche as fuck to hint at a tip or even look at the slip while in view of guests.

            Know who tips the best? Other servers. I and others who knew each other in those circles tipped one another 50+% when we’d patronize one another. We probably passed the same batch of money around. Of course we were usually comped rounds of drinks and appetizers, so… surprise surprise, the night out cost the same anyway, but we didn’t get shitty and cheap trying to game the system.

            Also, these are the social contract seas we swim in, smoothbrain. You think someone at an upscale establishment is going to stick it to the man by walking out? I have problems with capitalism as a whole, but you and yours seem to think servers (and I’d be willing to bet other “unskilled” workers by your definition) don’t deserve adequate compensation? I didn’t come up with this system, but it’s what we’ve got and there’s an elegance to it if you don’t get all butthurt. You’d pay what you’re paying plus tip one way or another. Grow a pair and stiff your server if you’re that annoyed. I’d respect that more than you being a keyboard warrior after folding and having a clenched asshole for feeling obligated to give a server 15%

            There is a really easy way for you to get what you want and not play into this system: stay home. No one wants to socialize with you out getting drinks anyway

    • @Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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      7 months ago

      Real “the system can’t be bad, I’ve had nothing but good interaction with cops” energy.

      Tipping as an institution is an outright scam with a rich history of systematic racism.

      • @negativeyoda@lemmy.world
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        27 months ago

        Racist? I’m not trying to make a bad faith argument, but… what?

        Dude. No one’s forcing you to eat out. Don’t if you don’t want to pay into that system (or just stiff if tipping as an institution is satanic to you)

        • @Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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          -37 months ago

          Lol someone pointed out that lemmy.world are just reddit users infesting the federation and I can’t unsee it when I read comments like this.

          • @bitsplease@lemmy.ml
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            17 months ago

            And yet this sounds exactly like the kind of “more righteous than thou” condescending comment I saw on reddit all the time. But when you’re doing it, it’s alright, yeah?

            • @Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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              -17 months ago

              Reddit users are fucking insufferable and low quality trolls 90% of the time and comments like this prove it.

  • @Mothra@mander.xyz
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    117 months ago

    Hm. I see what this is pointing at, but I find it odd that the guy in the shade has a phone, not a paper book. He doesn’t need the light to begin with.

  • The Cuuuuube
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    87 months ago

    The restraunt my friends used to work at did tip pooling. The workers made sure the cooks and the hosts got paid what their work was worth and would work with servers whose sections were underperforming to see what they could do to close the gap. The cook friend I had in that group had dreams of being a chef and opening a restaraunt as a co-op

  • @Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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    67 months ago

    Correction: Left guy is the boss because most food service companies will (usually illegally) skim tips. Tipping culture is fucking awful.