The annual U.S. firearm suicide rate in 2022 increased to the highest documented level since at least 1968, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Yea, we definitely need a two-pronged (or more) approach to tackle it in the US. Mental health would go a loooooong way for both the suicides and mass shootings.
Red flag laws are just fine when written correctly. That’s a ridiculous fear-mongering point. Not all of them are the same nor have the same agencies calling any shots.
You don’t have a clue because you’re being a pessemist about proven impacts. Red flag laws that target domestic violence and clinical depression have demonstrable impact on the problem. It’s intractible because people like you refuse to accept that a step in the right direction is better than nothing. Your attitude is quite pathetic, and you are part of the problem when you go on about how nothing can be done.
The potential for abuse is not a reason against the whole plan. Or should we kick you off the internet because it allows terrible people to communicate?
I am in a similar situation with my guns. I have two antique long guns. They’re locked up, in the crawl space, and I don’t keep any ammo in my house.
I have depression and I don’t trust myself not to use my guns to kill myself. For me, the inconvenience of accessing them and obtaining ammo feels like a safe compromise.
I agree that this is an enormous problem with no easy solutions.
99% of our gun issues are due to intractable poverty and inequality. 50 years ago we didn’t have these issues because Corporations were not so overbalanced. There were perks to many jobs because taxes were very high on profits.
Fix the extreme poverty, housing, and take-home pay and most of these social issue will disappear. The rich and powerful ( Corpos and people) want people to give up rights because their problem is about control more than money.
Giving up rights won’t change any suicides because there is no more hope in the US anymore.
The second amendment had a very different meaning before Heller. Scalia went against his entire fucking schtick of “originalism” in that case to completely ignore historical precedence because it was convenient at the time. When nobody seemed to try to stop him, or really give a shit at all, he realized he didn’t even need to pretend to be consistent.
You’re right, and you’re going to get downvoted for it. We have an inequality problem masking as a gun problem. We have a mental health crisis masking as gun problem.
Possible solutions to these situations aren’t fast and they don’t stir up emotions enough to get people to vote for you. Riling people up and telling them you can fix their problems fast gets votes; saying we have work to do doesn’t.
The stigma against mental healthcare won’t be gone in my child’s generation, but I am happy to see it is being accepted more than it was for mine. Of course, not thinking poorly of people for taking care of themselves doesn’t matter if people can’t afford to…
We have an inequality problem masking as a gun problem. We have a mental health crisis masking as gun problem.
Hard agree. People would not be killing themselves in droves if these issues weren’t present.
We have a shitload of guns in this country. Nothing is going to change that.
While I think we do need more strict gun ownership laws, they’re not going to change the amount already in people’s hands. Nor will they make people less miserable.
What we need are tangible improvements in people’s lives. Improved wages. Lower housing costs. Affordable healthcare. Quality, free treatment for addiction.
These are the things that will keep people from killing themselves.
I’m glad to see this line of thinking in this thread, even if the “Take 'em all” sentiment seems to be more popular. Over the last 40ish years, gun ownership has slowly trended downwards.
The fact of the matter is, healthy & happy people tend not to shoot themselves or others. Depressed, desparate, jaded, and angry people are the ones out there abusing their 2A rights. Taking away their guns may stop them from using them on people, but it doesn’t feel like a complete solution: you still have people who were unstable enough to commit murder /suicide out there.
I admit I have no data to support this next idea, but my gut feeling is that you could swap the gun laws & density of the US and one of those European coutries we’re always compared to, and the rates of overall violent crime / suicide would not change that drastically.
We’re on the same page re: mental healthcare. I was trying to convey I’m glad the stigma around it less and less with each generation, but we still have a ways to go.
Here’s a thought: gun ownership is not a right and it was a mistake for that to have been put in the Constitution.
If for the sake of argument we determine that it is not a right, then we can make some actual change. We heavily restrict ownership, prosecute those who have them after a grace period, stop sales of ammo to citizens, heavily monitor borders and ports of entry for firearms, and demilitarize the police.
In addition, we invest in education, social programs, mental health, and improve wages, housing costs, and food costs for everyone.
Instead of all that, we’re going to do nothing and send more money into the military.
The SCOTUS needs to revisit the issue. Heller was wrongly decided on the basis of shitacularly poor reasoning. There is no other solution. Unfortunately it’s not going to happen any time soon. The plus side is that as Dobbs showed us, the court has no problem overturning long established precedent when it suits them.
I’m also not convinced that red flag laws can’t work. They just have to be designed with a ton of safeguards in place. I think we should at least try them before deciding that they can’t work. I believe there are already a handful of them in place at the state level, but I could be wrong as I don’t follow the issue closely.
And don’t start me with red flag laws, I know exactly how those would work out. Imagine vengeful exes, modern Brown Shirts, cops you pissed off, fuck me, even neighbors that are annoyed with you. While we’re at it, let’s just chunk the 4A right out the window.
Ya know you mostly had me up until here. Red flag laws - when your neighbor becomes despondent they should just leave the firearms around? When some kook starts waving his pistol around at the 7-11, you think they’re keeping and bearing arms responsibly? I don’t. Red Flag Laws are necessary.
Gun laws are the reason I can’t take that easy way out. Not cause it’s too difficult, I easily could, but I don’t want my legacy to be a row in a database used to push gun control laws I disagree with.
And if anyone wants to come in here screaming, “BAN all the things!”, just don’t. The 2A exists and the courts uphold it as an individual right, those are facts and not open to argument.
Not saying it’s easy or something that can be done soon. Just saying that a lot of things will change in this country once the silent gen and the boomers are gone.
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Yea, we definitely need a two-pronged (or more) approach to tackle it in the US. Mental health would go a loooooong way for both the suicides and mass shootings.
Red flag laws are just fine when written correctly. That’s a ridiculous fear-mongering point. Not all of them are the same nor have the same agencies calling any shots.
You don’t have a clue because you’re being a pessemist about proven impacts. Red flag laws that target domestic violence and clinical depression have demonstrable impact on the problem. It’s intractible because people like you refuse to accept that a step in the right direction is better than nothing. Your attitude is quite pathetic, and you are part of the problem when you go on about how nothing can be done.
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Lol… I’m not even saying I agree or disagree with you, but that is some weak sauce barely anecdotal “evidence” to use as backup for such a claim.
Aside from the entire thing being a slippery slope argument, and completely fallacious, that’s just not how reasoning works.
The potential for abuse is not a reason against the whole plan. Or should we kick you off the internet because it allows terrible people to communicate?
Your entire general attitude is a problem.
I am in a similar situation with my guns. I have two antique long guns. They’re locked up, in the crawl space, and I don’t keep any ammo in my house.
I have depression and I don’t trust myself not to use my guns to kill myself. For me, the inconvenience of accessing them and obtaining ammo feels like a safe compromise.
I agree that this is an enormous problem with no easy solutions.
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vs
The 2nd amendment needs to go on the dustbin of history. I’m not saying people can’t own guns, but the right to should disappear.
“But that’s not realistic”, you might say. Sure, it’s not going to happen any time soon but I think the US will get there eventually.
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99% of our gun issues are due to intractable poverty and inequality. 50 years ago we didn’t have these issues because Corporations were not so overbalanced. There were perks to many jobs because taxes were very high on profits.
Fix the extreme poverty, housing, and take-home pay and most of these social issue will disappear. The rich and powerful ( Corpos and people) want people to give up rights because their problem is about control more than money.
Giving up rights won’t change any suicides because there is no more hope in the US anymore.
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It’s like this now, though. Living in the past doesn’t do anything to protect those suffering today.
The second amendment had a very different meaning before Heller. Scalia went against his entire fucking schtick of “originalism” in that case to completely ignore historical precedence because it was convenient at the time. When nobody seemed to try to stop him, or really give a shit at all, he realized he didn’t even need to pretend to be consistent.
You’re right, and you’re going to get downvoted for it. We have an inequality problem masking as a gun problem. We have a mental health crisis masking as gun problem.
Possible solutions to these situations aren’t fast and they don’t stir up emotions enough to get people to vote for you. Riling people up and telling them you can fix their problems fast gets votes; saying we have work to do doesn’t.
The stigma against mental healthcare won’t be gone in my child’s generation, but I am happy to see it is being accepted more than it was for mine. Of course, not thinking poorly of people for taking care of themselves doesn’t matter if people can’t afford to…
Hard agree. People would not be killing themselves in droves if these issues weren’t present.
We have a shitload of guns in this country. Nothing is going to change that.
While I think we do need more strict gun ownership laws, they’re not going to change the amount already in people’s hands. Nor will they make people less miserable.
What we need are tangible improvements in people’s lives. Improved wages. Lower housing costs. Affordable healthcare. Quality, free treatment for addiction.
These are the things that will keep people from killing themselves.
I’m glad to see this line of thinking in this thread, even if the “Take 'em all” sentiment seems to be more popular. Over the last 40ish years, gun ownership has slowly trended downwards.
The fact of the matter is, healthy & happy people tend not to shoot themselves or others. Depressed, desparate, jaded, and angry people are the ones out there abusing their 2A rights. Taking away their guns may stop them from using them on people, but it doesn’t feel like a complete solution: you still have people who were unstable enough to commit murder /suicide out there.
I admit I have no data to support this next idea, but my gut feeling is that you could swap the gun laws & density of the US and one of those European coutries we’re always compared to, and the rates of overall violent crime / suicide would not change that drastically.
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We’re on the same page re: mental healthcare. I was trying to convey I’m glad the stigma around it less and less with each generation, but we still have a ways to go.
Here’s a thought: gun ownership is not a right and it was a mistake for that to have been put in the Constitution.
If for the sake of argument we determine that it is not a right, then we can make some actual change. We heavily restrict ownership, prosecute those who have them after a grace period, stop sales of ammo to citizens, heavily monitor borders and ports of entry for firearms, and demilitarize the police.
In addition, we invest in education, social programs, mental health, and improve wages, housing costs, and food costs for everyone.
Instead of all that, we’re going to do nothing and send more money into the military.
The SCOTUS needs to revisit the issue. Heller was wrongly decided on the basis of shitacularly poor reasoning. There is no other solution. Unfortunately it’s not going to happen any time soon. The plus side is that as Dobbs showed us, the court has no problem overturning long established precedent when it suits them.
I’m also not convinced that red flag laws can’t work. They just have to be designed with a ton of safeguards in place. I think we should at least try them before deciding that they can’t work. I believe there are already a handful of them in place at the state level, but I could be wrong as I don’t follow the issue closely.
Ya know you mostly had me up until here. Red flag laws - when your neighbor becomes despondent they should just leave the firearms around? When some kook starts waving his pistol around at the 7-11, you think they’re keeping and bearing arms responsibly? I don’t. Red Flag Laws are necessary.
https://jalopnik.com/stop-leaving-unsecured-guns-in-your-cars-1850268670
This nation needs to be responsible with the 440 MILLION firearms it’s accumulated if they’re going to keep them.
I don’t think it’s intractable I think it’s unenforced and under-reported.
Yes. Because they’re all based on the original racist law, the Second Amendment.
https://truthout.org/articles/the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery/
Gun laws are the reason I can’t take that easy way out. Not cause it’s too difficult, I easily could, but I don’t want my legacy to be a row in a database used to push gun control laws I disagree with.
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Repeal and replace 2A.
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Not saying it’s easy or something that can be done soon. Just saying that a lot of things will change in this country once the silent gen and the boomers are gone.