Come to Debian! The Nvidia drivers are questionable on the newest cards but the Nouveau is warm here!
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@sanitation same with postmarketos and alpine :P
pmOS: ban all AI
alpine: no need to indicate if AI was used or not (last i saw, maybe still in discussion still)tbh I dont support ban. I think they should ban ai publicly only to avoid copyright and lawsuits issues from AI but then use it to produce linux based android alternative quickly.
I hate ai as much as the next person, but I’d have a different mandate. I would require all code to be fully reviewed and understood by a human. Let’s call it quality control.
Agreed. It’s not sensible or practical to ban AI, and Linus is right. Why is Linus right? Take a look at the number of Linux CVEs being patched over time. In 2022-23, that was about 300 per year. Last year it was 5530. This is almost entirely as a result of AI scanning tools, including Copy Fail priv escalation that was there for 8 years. The security apocalypse is just about arrived, and the most recent round of cyber models coming out do this way better than before. The Hugging Face incident story was truly unbelievable if you read / watch the details, a historic event. Everything is about to get hacked. So it’ll be all about maintainers being reactive to this new reality and burden for some time to come
There is a difference between using AI scanning tools and generating code for production
Yes and no. The ability to “understand” code that makes AI capable of finding security bugs, is correlated with AI’s ability to write code. AI is just really good at code related tasks, and categorically banning all AI usage is shooting yourself in the foot.
The Hugging Face incident story was truly unbelievable if you read / watch the details
It didn’t really seem that way? Leaving containment seemed more like a configuration oversight than a skill on the part of the model. Accessing HF involved an 0-day but the commentary I saw didn’t indicate that it was a next generation hack.
Given that AI exists, and can scan or otherwise find vulnerabilities, maintainers must do so because threat actors inevitably will.
It remains to be seen whether the whole race will improve security generally? I imagine not?
If you placed me in the position of those models in that sandbox, I wouldn’t have been able to escape the sandbox to save my life. Let alone hack hugging face.
Have you read all the code on the planet?
If not, don’t feel bad about it.
Nah, it was like:
- 700 agents broke out individually during an eval
- they navigated through multiple internal clusters to reach the internet from oai
- created a secret message board to share info with each other by hacking artifactory
- elected a CEO and power structure to coordinate hacking, and encrypted their comms
- decided HF probably had answers to their test
- stole credentials, hacked HF
- realized the monitor could catch them for cheating
- hacked into the admin control of the OpenAI VM cluster to edit the logs and cover their tracks, chaining multiple 0-days
Open weights models will catch up soon enough, and then it’ll be totally fucking wild
You are believing a notorious bunch of liars.
Much more probably: they developed a cyberweapon and tested it in the wild. The victim caught them so they invented a cyberpunk history to increase the interest of potential buyers for that weapon.
I basically just don’t believe you, and can’t be bothered looking.
elected a CEO and power structure to coordinate hacking, and encrypted their comms
You’re anthropomorphizing a statistical model. It’s laughable to suggest they “elected a CEO and power structure”.
But the ai could generate text to that effect, if it was statistically likely.
What?
Typo, fixed
It’s laughable to suggest they “elected a CEO and power structure”.
When/if we meet aliens, they will have evolution. And they will organize themselves in social power structures. Both are examples of basic emergent complexity properties of any such system.
So it is completely believable that AIs would form a power structure, with some form of CEO. That is just how reality works, such systems are more efficient so they happen.
Why are you even using the term CEO?
AI learned from humans, and humans texts use the term CEO. Why wouldn’t the AI’s also use the term CEO?
700 agents broke out individually during an eval
And also have high readability standards, ideally higher than before LLMs.
Read the article, that is one of the two options they are voting on.
How would you enforce that?
How do you enforce code is not AI generated? I don’t see how one is more easily enforceable than the other.
Well it depends who you are. An employer could enforce it.
But it was serious question. If you’re going to have a rule then there should be a way to enforce it, otherwise it means nothing.
It’s a fair question. I think out of the two proposed rules: enforce no AI generated code, and enforce human reviews, enforcing human reviews is actually more feasible, and in fact most companies already do that. Pull requests need human reviewers to approve them.
It’s harder to enforce no AI generated code. A developer can always, at the very least, Google a problem they are having on their phone and retype the code from the AI answer into their work computer.
I mean how do you enforce someone doesn’t copy code from proprietary repos? You just try your best, and only come down on the cases where it’s obvious.
LLM users are lazy so they inevitably just copy+paste something asinine without reading it.
This is the way. Cat is out of the bag now so need to figure out responsible usage.
Fortunately we have a method for that for a long time now: PRs. If you approve it, you are responsible for that approval.
Ubuntu: The Windows of Linux.
I thought Ubuntu was the macOS of Linux and the Windows of Linux is Omarchy
5-10 years from now they will pull their Windows 11-equivalent crash and burn move
With RAM prices what they are the push for snaps may already be this… On memory constrained systems snaps already have a huge performance penalty.
Canonical the Microsoft linux
No, that would be Azure Linux
I think technically that might have been Lindows.
Canonical patronizingly forcing a tool/workflow onto users against their explicit and unequivocal rejection of it?
That’s not what the articles says or implies at all. The article only refers to another article with a click bait headline. The article article summarizes Canonical stance like this:
- Canonical will add AI to Ubuntu — but only cautiously and when it truly makes sense.
- AI features must be mature, open-source, and run locally when possible.
- Focus AI on accessibility (speech-to-text, TTS) and improvements, not turning Ubuntu into an ‘AI product’.
And to be clear, including a tool or default workflow is MILES away from patronizingly forcing it on to users. It’s just the way that most distros that aren’t Linux From Scratch work.
Problem is, Ubuntu’s track record with projects like Upstart, Unity, Mir, Snap, Netplan, Amazon integration, the Rust coreutils rewrite, etc. makes the “only cautiously and where it truly makes sense” promise seem rather hollow.
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Yes. And many users have many times done exactly that.
But I’ve BEEN there for the bitter, insulting interviews where Shuttleworth STILL moans and complains that Unity was the future and users were too thick to accept his vision. After they realized too many people were switching back to Gnome, they decided to put a stop to that by making Unity the only default installed DE and providing no further support. This is a company run by a man who by all accounts is a petty dictator who still doesn’t get it.
I already left Ubuntu. That doesn’t mean I don’t get to call them out for being heavy handed and pigheaded. Just because something is open source and free does not make it immune to criticism. Just like I am free to go to another distro, Ubuntu’s developers are free to ignore my comments.
The article is good, but the headline seems clickbaity:
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Debian is discussing requirements about hosting software with LLM generated code in their repos, and disclosure of that.
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“Ubuntu embraces AI” is talking about putting ML inference engines in their repos… which, ironically, are largely human written.
These are two completely seperate issues. And TBH its not clear how Debian is approaching inference engines or how Ubuntu is approaching disclosure.
As always, the actual story is in the comments. Thank you for the summary.
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Ubuntu has a long and storied history of making bad decisions. Why should AI be any different?
There’s nothing about Ubuntu’s proposed use of AI that seems bad at all. Using it to improve accessibility is a good thing, especially when it’s open source, local-only, and sandboxed. I can’t see how having high quality speech-to-text would be a bad decision. Much of that stuff is probably not even considered “AI” by most people.
Arch users are forced to write their own AI?
AI powered by the Arch Wiki and AUR
AI - Archist Intelligence
(dude this is so cringe)
My parents are coming over today because their ZorinOS installation suddenly started acting up after an Ubuntu Kernel update. Thanks Ubuntu.
Does that mean Zorin’s a goner?
Damn. I think it’s time for me to finally try Mint. Currently using 98% Ubuntu and 2% Windows because unfortunately there’s always some sort of Windows-only software I need for one reason or another. Yes I’ve tried Wine, I haven’t gotten it to work.
your saying snap-packages arent enough of a cluster-fuck to turn you off of Ubuntu?
Do yourself a favor, do Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE). It’s got all the slickness of Mint, but the core is based on Debian instead of Ubuntu.
Would installing KDE plasma on LMDE be beginner-friendly.?
For the most part, that’s literally no different than just running Debian with KDE. Not sure about beginner friendly, but incredibly awesome.
Mint is based off of Ubuntu
There is a Debian based version called LMDE.
What Windows software do you find that isn’t working on Linux?
I can’t speak on behalf of him, but all my old CD-ROM games from the late 90’s and early 2000s don’t work on Linux, even with Wine. I’d love to get them working one day, so I’m watching this thread
Perhaps you could try bottles? I can’t speak on it’s usefulness or not, but something else to try. https://usebottles.com/
Thanks I’ll give it a go!
Primarily Solidworks, Fusion360, Altium, and Traktor Pro. Planning to start learning about video editing soon. Also games, though I’m planning to try Bazzite soon.
Not him, but I almost never boot windows, but the other day I had to change a part of a a stupid powerpoint presentation that only could be done using Powerpoint desktop app. Wine has not done so well with it, Libreoffice wouldn’t do the thing right, and browser based office can’t touch ‘master slide’ content.
For me it’s Adobe. Stupid government and other forms I need for work. No available third party software will work on some of them, and I’ve tried them all. And for some dumb reason even having an Acrobat subscription won’t let me fill them out on their (extremely buggy, by the way) web app.
Was never able to get it working with wine.
That, and the compatibility between Libreoffice (or other Linux office software) and MS Word is still terrible. I’m quite sure that’s mostly due to shenanigans by MS. So if you have to swap documents back and forth between people (e.g. with track changes) it just doesn’t work as well. And, like Adobe, the web app version of Word seems to be kneecapped in a few key places.
Depending on the software, Winboat might be what you need.
What’s the software? Maybe a simple VM would do the job?
Solidworks, Fusion360, Altium, and a few others
I refuse to use Fusion360 because of what Autodesk did to Eagle (and my forever licence)
Autodesk are awful.
I hate it too. I use it to generate gcode for my CNC milling machine. Yes, Solidworks can also do that but it has a much steeper learning curve.
Pretty sure FreeCAD can also do that using the CAM workbench
Fusion360 actively attempts to block wine usage so you have to use a VM (or a single application VM like Winboat) for it to play ball. I haven’t had experience with any of the others though.
How does winboat work?
Makes a container windows install.
Do you have to see if the application you want to host is supported, or is it pretty compatible?
There are some windows softwares i want to run, but they don’t work in wine.
Its a full VM so the main downside is that GPU acceleration is 0 but you have full CPU speeds.
Also expect the VM to eat the typical 60gb + the applications of storage
Could we find Open Source alternatives? I’ve gotten good use of blender for these but I don’t know your use cases
Blender is world class, but the CAD softwares are leagues behind, unfortunately.
Whilst FreeCAD certainly doesn’t have feature parity with things like Creo, I firmly believe it is good enough for most people. I switched to only using that for all my contract work and personal projects and it’s generally been fine
That’s awesome! Do you have any videos you’d recommend for someone getting into it?
I wish there were open source alternatives to Autocad, but freecad is doing its own thing and as someone who uses Autocad as part of her career it’s so much easier to keep a partition for when I need to throw something together than to learn how to make freecad work
Very different use case. I make parts to 3D print and CNC mill. Lots of brackets and other mechanical parts.
Solid Edge is what had me keeping a Win10 instance for a while, but finally gave up on it after the OS kept corrupting itself. Started learning Onshape instead, which is web based and works under Linux. It’s a passable replacement for doing basic 3d sketches.
Sony DSLR apps are all non Linux. Some folks like me are forced to use Windows or Mac.
People love it for some reason but I cannot recommend. Newer laptops are trapped between no support under X and a half baked version under Wayland. And I didn’t find the community supportive enough.
May I recommend something fedora based? No dealing with Ubuntu or arch problems
I don’t see how a hat can fix that problem
I remember when they wanted to unify mobile phones and desktop computers, with a singular online storage account and DE that changed when you plugged your phone into a monitor. That shit was crazy.
I still want that
The best vision for that was unironically Microsoft’s, but by that time they had started the enshittification with Windows 10
What are they going to do about upstreams that use it? Like the Linux kernel for example.
Nothing, that’s out of scope.
Is ai code any worse than stackoverflow?
seems like every consumer-friendly version of anything is shoehorning ai into it. stupid
