because if you want to succeed let alone survive in life the attitude needs to change or it needs to hide.
Framing things this way is a big mistake and I don’t see why it isn’t more obvious to people that it’s a mistake. You want someone you care about to believe that there is a binary choice between a sustainable existence and resolving their emotional needs? You couldn’t make a more persuasive argument for suicidal thinking and self destructive behavior if you tried. And it isn’t even true because they are mutually dependent priorities. It took me too many years and therapy to figure this out, you should really consider approaching the issue from a different angle than this one.
social norms have reasons as well. you cant just say “because social norms exist” and expect someone to accept that answer as a reason. its basically the same as saying “because everyone says so”. so why dont you explain why the particular social norm is one in the first place. if you dont know maybe you need to find out before you try to enforce it on others.
also as an autistic person you shouldn’t be encouraging people to mask. that shit is incredibly damaging to people. i masked for most of my life and what people dont see is that i was basically just surviving that whole time. i developed an incredible amount of anxiety, to the point where i couldnt really function in society for more than a few hours at a time before i had to isolate for a day or two to recover. i wore the mask so often for so long i didnt even know who i really was anymore. i didnt start to live until a few years ago when i started making a concerted effort to take off the mask and be myself. and you know what, people fucking accepted me way more than they ever did when i was being fucking fake all the time for the sake of appearances. you might mean well telling your son and all the autists who will see your comment to mask to get by, but all youre doing is fucking hurting them and you need to stop. masking isnt for us, its for you.
“If you don’t learn to adopt them you will isolate yourself” might be true if there was 1 neurodivergent person. We are a community and personally I’m not interested in being more than acquaintances if I have to mask around you all the time. That’s not a mutually beneficial relationship.
Autistics are constantly told this lie and it completely ignores the fact that there’s plenty of other autistics that will understand and accommodate each other’s needs.
This is an ableist way to see the world and my lived experience directly contradicts it.
That’s awesome. Sadly, it does’t apply to their kids PTA, their neighbors or their Jobs.
There is some level of faking and coping that greases the wheels and lets you not have to swim through the raw sewage of every other ‘normies’ ignorance.
Don’t fold in and just give on every thing, but don’t die on that fucking hill either.
Perfectly reasonable but let’s also recognize that some social norms exist only because of tradition, and are unnecessary & uncomfortable, these social norms need to be questioned & challenged & done away with. When enough people question them and challenge them, and eventually get rid of some unnecessary oppressive social norms, we can continue to evolve as a species.
The issue isn’t people choosing to behave a certain way, it’s the expectation that everyone need to behave that way. If people want to do the same as everyone else, fine. If the standards ultimately don’t matter, then who cares?
In my experience, the people who hate me for not following them wouldn’t like me even if I tried to play along. I am often more respected when I confidently stand as myself than when I try to follow the rules as meekly as possible. If I’m gonna be freak either way, I’m better off keeping my head held high.
You’re free to act however you want to. Honestly, that’s fine with me.
But the crux of this is, if you’re acting how you want, there’s a good chance that people don’t want to be around how you’re acting, and those people shouldn’t be chastised for not bending over backwards to cater to people who’re behaving in different ways.
If you want on that ride, fine. But don’t cry about it when no one else wants to accept that kind of thing.
If people are actively excluding somebody for being themselves, especially in a workplace, that is a problem that needs addressed.
It’s one thing if you’re being yourself and not being respectful at all, such as violating somebody’s space or taking up their time excessively, it’s another to silently shun somebody because they perceivably “went their whole lives being catered to”.
That’s discrimination. You said it yourself, “But don’t cry about it when no one else wants to accept that kind of thing.”
Not accepting is discrimination. You can communicate your needs, such as a need for focus or a reduction in non-work conversation, without being a dick.
Avoiding is another level of discrimination. If you don’t like someone or you are uncomfortable talking to someone, then say so instead of contributing to the culture of discrimination that they face.
Communicate your needs instead of acting like you don’t owe people basic respect because they were perceivably catered to… because they are different.
As someone with that, I say, fuck off to that “authority”.
Social norms are to be broken. We didn’t get Stonewall riots by following police and law and order. We didn’t get women’s rights by meekly letting men trample us. We didn’t get general suffrage by not rioting. We didn’t get the right to strike by doing nothing.
I think the attitude you’re being held back by, is more destructive. You’re willfully following rules instead of questioning them, then deciding whether they are justified to follow or not.
I think what you’re telling is not a “harsh reality” but a fabrication that neurotypical people tell themselves to justify “following orders”. Fuck that shit.
If I did what you said me to, I’d be in a much worse mental headspace now. I feel sorry for your son. You blindly following social norms IS the problem. Try to address that instead. Try to actually understand why your son finds it difficult. Most of us find it difficult because the authority is not justified: there’s no explanation, not even an imperfect one. We’re instead told to just suck it up instead of hearing, “hey, yeah, you got a point.” or even just engaging the discussion. Let it be the other way around. You go try to think if there’s something that you both could agree as justified for a rule. If such a thing isn’t there, then no need for the rule. Good authority doesn’t flow from “because I say so”, but from clear and justifiable rules.
I’m not going to mask myself because others refuse to take others into account. I have plenty of good interaction when I am not forced into masking, and less when I have to mask.
Let me ask you a question. Have you ever gone through what your son is going through with you now? Should a good parent not want to try to understand their child instead, rather than to force their own norms onto their descendant?
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Framing things this way is a big mistake and I don’t see why it isn’t more obvious to people that it’s a mistake. You want someone you care about to believe that there is a binary choice between a sustainable existence and resolving their emotional needs? You couldn’t make a more persuasive argument for suicidal thinking and self destructive behavior if you tried. And it isn’t even true because they are mutually dependent priorities. It took me too many years and therapy to figure this out, you should really consider approaching the issue from a different angle than this one.
Thank you. I’m glad some people realise that telling autistic people to adapt or die is an awful inhumane thing to do.
Because for people like me, that is what you are asking us to do.
social norms have reasons as well. you cant just say “because social norms exist” and expect someone to accept that answer as a reason. its basically the same as saying “because everyone says so”. so why dont you explain why the particular social norm is one in the first place. if you dont know maybe you need to find out before you try to enforce it on others.
also as an autistic person you shouldn’t be encouraging people to mask. that shit is incredibly damaging to people. i masked for most of my life and what people dont see is that i was basically just surviving that whole time. i developed an incredible amount of anxiety, to the point where i couldnt really function in society for more than a few hours at a time before i had to isolate for a day or two to recover. i wore the mask so often for so long i didnt even know who i really was anymore. i didnt start to live until a few years ago when i started making a concerted effort to take off the mask and be myself. and you know what, people fucking accepted me way more than they ever did when i was being fucking fake all the time for the sake of appearances. you might mean well telling your son and all the autists who will see your comment to mask to get by, but all youre doing is fucking hurting them and you need to stop. masking isnt for us, its for you.
“If you don’t learn to adopt them you will isolate yourself” might be true if there was 1 neurodivergent person. We are a community and personally I’m not interested in being more than acquaintances if I have to mask around you all the time. That’s not a mutually beneficial relationship.
Autistics are constantly told this lie and it completely ignores the fact that there’s plenty of other autistics that will understand and accommodate each other’s needs.
This is an ableist way to see the world and my lived experience directly contradicts it.
That’s awesome. Sadly, it does’t apply to their kids PTA, their neighbors or their Jobs.
There is some level of faking and coping that greases the wheels and lets you not have to swim through the raw sewage of every other ‘normies’ ignorance.
Don’t fold in and just give on every thing, but don’t die on that fucking hill either.
Perfectly reasonable but let’s also recognize that some social norms exist only because of tradition, and are unnecessary & uncomfortable, these social norms need to be questioned & challenged & done away with. When enough people question them and challenge them, and eventually get rid of some unnecessary oppressive social norms, we can continue to evolve as a species.
They’re still social norms because people are fine with them.
Just because a group of people online are against things, doesn’t mean that everyone else isn’t fine with it.
The issue isn’t people choosing to behave a certain way, it’s the expectation that everyone need to behave that way. If people want to do the same as everyone else, fine. If the standards ultimately don’t matter, then who cares?
In my experience, the people who hate me for not following them wouldn’t like me even if I tried to play along. I am often more respected when I confidently stand as myself than when I try to follow the rules as meekly as possible. If I’m gonna be freak either way, I’m better off keeping my head held high.
You’re free to act however you want to. Honestly, that’s fine with me.
But the crux of this is, if you’re acting how you want, there’s a good chance that people don’t want to be around how you’re acting, and those people shouldn’t be chastised for not bending over backwards to cater to people who’re behaving in different ways.
If you want on that ride, fine. But don’t cry about it when no one else wants to accept that kind of thing.
If people are actively excluding somebody for being themselves, especially in a workplace, that is a problem that needs addressed.
It’s one thing if you’re being yourself and not being respectful at all, such as violating somebody’s space or taking up their time excessively, it’s another to silently shun somebody because they perceivably “went their whole lives being catered to”.
That’s discrimination. You said it yourself, “But don’t cry about it when no one else wants to accept that kind of thing.”
Not accepting is discrimination. You can communicate your needs, such as a need for focus or a reduction in non-work conversation, without being a dick.
Someone avoiding a person is not discrimination. People are not entitled to other peoples’ time or patience. That’s what I’m trying to say here.
Avoiding is another level of discrimination. If you don’t like someone or you are uncomfortable talking to someone, then say so instead of contributing to the culture of discrimination that they face.
Communicate your needs instead of acting like you don’t owe people basic respect because they were perceivably catered to… because they are different.
No it’s not. Lol.
Not every person deserves an answer for every action around them. I’m sorry, but that’s just not realistic.
It’s fine so long as we can coexist and work together without issue. I would dislike spending time with you more than you would with me
When you tell your autistic child to mask you’re encouraging them to make their mental health worse: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/13623613251353358
As someone with that, I say, fuck off to that “authority”.
Social norms are to be broken. We didn’t get Stonewall riots by following police and law and order. We didn’t get women’s rights by meekly letting men trample us. We didn’t get general suffrage by not rioting. We didn’t get the right to strike by doing nothing.
I think the attitude you’re being held back by, is more destructive. You’re willfully following rules instead of questioning them, then deciding whether they are justified to follow or not.
I think what you’re telling is not a “harsh reality” but a fabrication that neurotypical people tell themselves to justify “following orders”. Fuck that shit.
If I did what you said me to, I’d be in a much worse mental headspace now. I feel sorry for your son. You blindly following social norms IS the problem. Try to address that instead. Try to actually understand why your son finds it difficult. Most of us find it difficult because the authority is not justified: there’s no explanation, not even an imperfect one. We’re instead told to just suck it up instead of hearing, “hey, yeah, you got a point.” or even just engaging the discussion. Let it be the other way around. You go try to think if there’s something that you both could agree as justified for a rule. If such a thing isn’t there, then no need for the rule. Good authority doesn’t flow from “because I say so”, but from clear and justifiable rules.
I’m not going to mask myself because others refuse to take others into account. I have plenty of good interaction when I am not forced into masking, and less when I have to mask.
Let me ask you a question. Have you ever gone through what your son is going through with you now? Should a good parent not want to try to understand their child instead, rather than to force their own norms onto their descendant?
I’ll take unloved and alone over your fake love.