The Bell Riots start on Sunday. Stay safe out there!

<Anyone coming from /c/all please note this is a joke post for an in universe Star Trek event. Remain Calm.>

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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    21 days ago

    Meanwhile, in the real 2024, a lot of homeless people would probably prefer being put into a sanctuary district than having their very existence made illegal and cops either clearing them out or arresting them wherever they went.

    • Melllvar
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      21 days ago

      In reality, getting them to accept services and help is the #1 obstacle to getting them services and help.

      • Spider@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        21 days ago

        Most homeless shelters in San Francisco dont allow people to take their belongings in with them.

        Attitudes towards the homeless are highly backwards - demanding sobriety as a condition for aid, when in reality drugs are used as a way to escape the pain of trauma and homelessness. SF residents voted and passed Proposition F, cementing the idea that feeling smugness over the homeless is more important than actually trying to help them escape poverty.

        • Melllvar
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          21 days ago

          Most shelters do in fact allow people to bring their belongings with them (within reason). Some even provide storage space, and the city provides a free self-storage facility.

          Prop F addresses CAAP (cash welfare), not housing. You don’t have to be receiving CAAP to qualify for housing assistance, and you don’t have to be homeless to qualify for CAAP.

          SF has been struggling with a chronic homelessness problem for decades. Offering voluntary services does not work. To put in in Trek terms, the problem isn’t the gimmes, it’s the ghosts and dims. Gimmes are easy to help because they can act on their own behalf and in their own best interests. They accept services and don’t end up being chronically homeless. The ghosts and the dims, on the other hand, are a different story.

          Is sweeping their encampments an ideal solution? No, far from it. But what else is there for us to do? Let them languish on the streets? Honestly, what would you have us do?

          • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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            20 days ago

            Housing First is the correct way to reduce homelessness. The main cause of homelessness is being priced out of the housing market, because the vast majority of housing in America is entirely privatized. Plus most public housing in America is not done nor funded well, until our European counterparts.

            Drug addiction is a symptom of late-stage homelessness, not a cause. The cause is almost always the private housing market pricing people out of affording even rent. In the US, housing is first and foremost an investment, not a necessity.

            Numerous studies show that housing first participants experience higher levels of housing retention and use fewer emergency and criminal justice services, which produces cost savings in emergency department use, inpatient hospitalizations, and criminal justice system use.

            https://www.pdx.edu/homelessness/housing-first

            This has worked famously in Finland

            • Melllvar
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              20 days ago

              Housing First has been the policy in San Francisco since 2008, and state-wide since 2016.

              • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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                20 days ago

                No they haven’t. Shelters and Housing Lotterys are not Housing First. Housing First is free housing, like studio apartments, where homeless people can get stability in order to recover from addiction and join the job market.

                https://sfplanning.org/housing Housing for All is going in the right direction, but Housing First is specifically important for addressing and reducing homeless.

                  • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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                    20 days ago

                    Oh I see that now. Yeah you’re right that California has started Housing First. I looked into it but I couldn’t find any data about the results of the people who took part, only the overall data of the state of California which doesn’t really tell me how well the program itself is in California. The major difference between it done on a State level compared to on a national level like Finland is the amount of financial support and scope of implementation. Looking into it, I also noticed Finland has extensive access to many services for people that are utilizing Housing First, which wasn’t the case in California. Another major aspect is that Finland has significantly better access to affordable housing, especially with the amount of public housing available, bit also in the private market.

                    The root cause of homelessness has not been addressed in America like it has in Finland, so the amount of people becoming homeless is still increasing here in America.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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        21 days ago

        And that is because a large amount of time, those services and help come with conditions they can’t accept.

        Take shelters for example. If you’re a homeless woman, you could stay in a shelter (until they kicked you out) but you probably have a dog to protect you since you’re a woman on the streets. The shelter would make you abandon the dog.

        • Melllvar
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          21 days ago

          I actually work in the SF housing industry, and worked at a housing site in SF that was converted to permanent supportive housing during COVID. In that case, barely 30% of the people even showed up to their intake appointments.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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            21 days ago

            What were the conditions in order to get an appointment? Who was offered appointments? Who was informed about them?

            • Melllvar
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              21 days ago

              Certification of homeless status from the city (already acquired if they were referred to us) and proof of income (if any).

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                21 days ago

                I think we both can come up with a great many reasons why someone wouldn’t want such a certification.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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        21 days ago

        Not even close to saying that. I think you need to look at what SCOTUS recently ruled about what cities can do with homeless people. Because sanctuary districts would be kinder.

        • socialpankakemix@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          21 days ago

          you cant leave a sanctuary district, thats a prison, why would anybody want to go there? theres three main ways you end up there, you are too poor, your caught sleeping on the streets, or you have mental problems and cant afford the healthcare.

          inside the sanctuarys you have no guarantee for housing, no way to get a job, increased gang activity, more mentally unstable people, food shortages, how is that any better than living on the streets in our world?

          the rulings from the scotus is the first step to sanctuary districts my friend, and if you think that locking poor people in cages is kind, then you have a funny definition of kindness.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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            20 days ago

            I don’t think you understand the difference between “kinder” and “kindness.”

            Spitting in someone’s face is kinder than stabbing them in the throat. Does that mean spitting in their face is kindness?

            • socialpankakemix@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              20 days ago

              if you say something is kinder, then it must pass the bar of being kind first. I would say none of the things being described, (spitting , stabbing, and locking people away) counts as kind in the first place

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                20 days ago

                No, that’s not how language works.

                You can say that flies are smarter than bacteria despite neither being smart.

                You can say that Bob is uglier than Dave when neither Bob nor Dave are ugly.

                And I’ve already made it clear to you that I was not suggesting either was kind, so I’m not sure why you’re arguing this with me as if I were.

                • socialpankakemix@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  20 days ago

                  you can say bob is uglier than Dave sure, but if it’s not true then it means nothing, similarly if you call something unkind kind, then that also means nothing. you said that sanctuary districts would be kinder, in order to be kinder they must first be kind, so yes you did say sanctuary districts are kind.

                  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                    20 days ago

                    Again- I made it clear what I meant. You’re just harassing me at this point because you have decided I meant something I didn’t mean due to the way I said it even when you’ve been told otherwise. Maybe stop doing that.