My favorite quote:
While employees in the office might kill time messaging friends or flipping through TikTok, remote workers take advantage of being far from the watchful gaze of bosses to chip away at personal to-do lists or to goof off.
Nearly half of remote workers multitask on work calls or complete household chores like unloading the dishwasher or doing a load of laundry, according to the SurveyMonkey poll of 3,117 full-time workers in the U.S.
Oh noes, people actually doing things that are useful for their families instead of even more computer time.
It’s insane that this is even considered strange or surprising. When I work from home, I take longer lunch breaks and I often stop working earlier, but I’m still three times as productive compared to sitting in an office.
At home, I actually get focused time to do something and think. At the office, this is extreamly difficult with all the distractions and noise constantly interrupting my train of thought.
There is a concept that companies and managers need to wrap their stupid brains around. And that is that they are paying for your work not your time. So long as you complete the jobs and tasks they ask of you and need from you it shouldn’t matter what the hell you’re doing otherwise.
But they’re dumb Boomer infected brains have been programmed to expect people to sit in cubicles and offices like drones and stare at computer screens all day long. All so rich CEOs can walk through the building and feel more impressive.
P.S. obviously this is referring to salaried jobs not hourly jobs.
Gonna blow some fucking minds here: There are dishwashers in offices! And all sorts of other bits and pieces like coffee makers to futz around with. Got to be seen to be doing your share! Make a pot of coffee! Unload the dishwasher!
Honestly I am sure I waste just as much time or more when I’m in the office. And I’m interrupted more often so I’m less productive generally.
My partners boss took a lot of issues with multitasking and I can’t understand his logic.
I was getting fed up of my partners breakfast and lunch dishes piling up in the kitchen.
I’d come home from work to find the kitchen a disaster zone. I wouldn’t even have a clean spot of bench space to put my water bottle down.
My partner would explain he didn’t have long enough on his lunch break to wash the dishes, and his boss was cracking down on people doing personal chores during the work day.
I suggested if he can’t clean up like he’s at home, he needs to prepare food like he’s in the office. Ie, make a lunch box the night before so there aren’t 40 dishes on the day.
He explained that this is how he used to eat in the office, because they had a cleaner who worked while everyone was in, tidying up after them, they’d cook meals for each other and eat family style, and his boss still encourages family lunches via teams/zoom.
So his boss used to hire someone to clean while the pencil pushers were pushing pencils. Now there is no one who’s job is to clean, but his boss won’t let anyone clean up after themselves, but still expects them to generate mess for team building.
I told my partner he can either get a lunch box, or he can tell his boss “I’m doing the dishes during the work day, if you’d prefer I don’t, I won’t, but I’ll need a raise because divorce is expensive”
If it was any other boss, I’d tell my partner to suck it up and eat faster so he can wash up on his break, but it’s the fact the boss is still working in the office with the cleaner, so he’s got someone cleaning up as he works, but he won’t allow his staff to also work in a safe and clean environment.
Yeah that’s a terrible boss. There are a shit ton of those. And the fact that they’re arranging his work at home the way he would work in an office is just ridiculous. The idea that you have a “lunch break” at home is just stupid. You should be able to do the work as it’s needed not clock-in clock-out style like they’re in an office.
It also comes from the fact that many jobs, and many more historically, are/were, in fact, paying you for your time. If you’re fortunate enough to work in a job that doesn’t care how much of your time is “company time,” and you can work 5 hours a week to get everything expected of you done, that’s great, but I would be quiet about it.
Any manager I’ve met would likely make a decision to give you 8x the amount expected of you each week, if that’s your situation. That would indicate to me that we can find find someone less skilled that will take longer to complete objectives but we can pay significantly less, or we’re not getting as much out of you as we’re paying for.
Most people don’t have the luxury you’re describing, so I would hold on to that job situation!
The backlog at my old job was a solid couple of years long. Probably a decade if you included all the non-critical stuff
If you’re fortunate enough to work in a job that doesn’t care how much of your time is “company time,” and you can work 5 hours a week to get everything expected of you done, that’s great, but I would be quiet about it.
Ok, first there are no jobs like this. Or, to be more precise, there are jobs like this but they are few and far between and are always in offices where you can make it look like it’s taking a lot of time to get your work done while basically goofing off. And generally speaking they’re hourly paid.
Salaried jobs, on the other hand, have a pretty rigorous work load. They don’t hire people for a salary position without knowing how much work it takes to get the job done. So whether you are sitting in an office or sitting at your desk at home, the same amount of actual work is required. The only difference is that you don’t waste hours getting dressed up and commuting to your job. This is why work from home arrangements tend to be far more efficient for both the worker and the company.
The reason these CEOs and managers are trying to force everyone back into offices is to justify their own egos and jobs. There is literally a ton of evidence that work from home jobs are way more productive than work from office jobs. But these egotistical douchebags don’t care. They need to see people slaving away at a desk and to be seen walking through their expensive office buildings in order to feel like they are worthwhile.
I think your argument overlooks some important factors. First, it might not be the case you’re maximizing productivity for the company when, by your own admission, you’re regularly taking longer lunches and ending work early. Research shows that while remote work can increase productivity by 10-20% for some people, other research shows a decline in productivity. Additionally a recent study from Harvard indicated the productivity increase is less about daily productivity but rather that there are less sick days being taken because they can WFH and turnover decreases because people don’t want to leave for a better job (or get fired for taking sick days while WFH) without WFH benefits, which can also stagnate wages. And your stated dramatic threefold increase in efficiency seems extremely unlikely.
The idea that you can complete all your work in less hours a week I believe, but not without any trade-offs. Studies show that remote workers are often more productive due to fewer distractions and no commute, but employers expect that time saved to translate into higher output, not shorter workdays. If a manager noticed you had that extra time, I’m just saying they’d likely give you more tasks to fill your work hours more effectively.
So, while remote work might make you more efficient, your argument that productivity offsets a reduction in work hours might not hold up if you get an asshole manager or project director that has good surveillance of your workflow. A manager would see the underused time and adjust your workload accordingly to maximize your productivity, so I’m just saying you might not want to make it obvious to any superiors that they can extract more labor from you. Though, I think that’s generally good advice for any job! Protect your time.
if you get an asshole manager or project director that has good surveillance of your workflow. A manager would see the underused time and adjust your workload accordingly to maximize your productivity
There is no accounting for shitty bosses. And this happens in the office as well.
I also don’t see why you seem to be arguing against work from home. Most people who do work from home are pretty happy with it, the only ones who tend to not be happy with it are corporate execs. And I’ve already stated why I think they don’t like it.
And my main point remains the same. The problem is that corporations and companies think they own your time. That is the problem. They are paying you for work they need done, your time is your own. Or at least it should be.
Honestly, what pretty much all office workers truly need is a union. They all need to unionize and develop contracts with these companies that outline exactly what they can ask of them and what they get in return.
I agree with your last point, and while I’m not against working from home—in fact, I think it’s fantastic for employees—I don’t believe it’s equally great for businesses. The shift to remote work has really highlighted just how much of the work people do is, in Graeber’s words, “bullshit.” As David Graeber aptly said, “It’s as if someone were out there making up pointless jobs just for the sake of keeping us all working.”
This realization is a bit uncomfortable for many companies because it suggests that a significant part of their operations might not be as crucial as they thought. Instead of streamlining and rethinking these roles, they’re currently expanding managerial surveillance. Companies are now using intrusive monitoring tools that track every keystroke, mouse movement, and even how long you’re inactive. Eventually that could reasonably lead to efficiency firings and that “comfort buffer” that WFH has created will be replaced with additional tasks and expectations.
This heightened surveillance turns the promise of flexibility and freedom that WFH initially offered into a kind of digital panopticon, where employees feel like they’re constantly being watched. It raises concerns that we might be heading toward a hyper-Fordist nightmare—a future where the efficiency being chased at the expense of worker well-being is given new and more powerful tools, and the lines between work and personal life become hopelessly blurred.
It also seems like an obvious answer is to dramatically decrease salaried employees who take long lunches and quit work early because they’ve “completed their tasks,” to task-dependent contracts with assumption (but no guarantee) of renewal. It sounds like you’re in the sweet spot between the previous reality of work and the possible future reality, and I’m just saying you should ride and extend that situation as long as you can.
The early excitement about working from home could unintentionally lead to significant downsides for employees. Invasive monitoring can ramp up stress, erode privacy, and make people feel dehumanized. Plus, the loss of trust between employers and employees can hurt morale and actually decrease productivity over time. It seems important to address these issues now to prevent remote work from becoming a tool for unprecedented employee exploitation, which is why I think of all your commentary so far, your last paragraph here is probably the most agreeable and important.
Fuck this corporate propaganda.
Work from home and be happy.
Do office workers actually work? No, but they make coffee, collaborate, and network.
Collaboration is actually useful. The phrase you’re looking for is synergizing the cross-functional modalities.
Alright stop, collaborate and listen
While experiencing overwhelming anxiety that their boss is going to come around the corner and chew them out for not working.
Don’t forget smoking.
Offices still have smokers, right? The nearly retired old lady who smokes two packs a day and is way too familiar with the young men?
I’ve not worked in an office in like a decade, so I don’t know.
Yeah she’s still there and her name is Pam. Really interesting lady when you get her talking.
Oh yeah theyre interesting and usually fun.
It’s the bitch who doesn’t smoke who hangs around trying to fish out rumours who’s not a good time.
Businesses during covid: we are seeing an all time high in productivity from our workers due to them working from home, this is amazing!
Businesses after covid: these people working from home are nothing but lazy leeches who probably arent even doing their job and are robbing us of our money, despite all our previous statements to the contrary and verifiable statistics counter to this narrative we’re now pushing!
despite all our previous statements to the contrary and verifiable statistics counter to this narrative
This was by far the most frustrating part of the RTO push at my old company. The unofficial motto I was always told was “Show me the data”, as it was basically impossible to push for any sort of decision without solid data to back it up, even if everyone in the group thought it was a good idea.
When RTO was announced and the big all people town hall was held, multiple group heads stood up and asked the execs why they were doing this, and what data they had to back it up. Literally, and I quote from one of the execs, “Well, we don’t really have any, but we feel that people will be more productive, will be sharing more ideas and innovating when in the office.”
Yes, the executive at a multi-billion dollar automotive company literally said with a straight face to thousands of engineers who’d been working almost entirely from home for the past 3 years “This decision is based on feels, not reality”. Even better was since there was already an initial non-mandatory RTO push, some absolute chads even interrupted them to pull up hard data showing they had been tracking productivity since the RTO push, and their group members were significantly less productive on days they were in-office. Not only that, but they also showed there literally wasn’t the office space to fit everyone. The exec just hand waved it away and said “I’m sure we have plenty of desks for everyone”.
It’s absolutely infuriating seeing these people getting paid millions, if not billions, to suck so hard at basically everything.
I worked at a different company that was big on “data driven decisions”. They had tshirts made that literally said something like"data > feelings"
Before the pandemic, someone mentioned that studies were showing 4 day work weeks were effective and made people happier. The CEO just said “Yeah we’re not doing that.” Didn’t read the article or the study. Just nah.
After the pandemic, they were making people go back into the office. Same energy.
So what I’m saying is management and leadership are often just gutfeel idiots. Expensive babies.
It was never about RTO or Productivity. It was all about getting people to quit to reduce the bottom line. Otherwise they would have had layoffs and would have looked bad and cost more money in severance. It’s all just trying to save money.
Me as a programmer
- Exhausted working on something realizing I’m no longer being productive and stuck on a problem.
- Decide to take a break and go empty the dishwasher
- Comes back more refreshed and almost immediately solve the problem.
Edit: Side note - companies I worked at that had dishwashers also expected employees to take turns emptying it / loading dishes others didn’t put in it.
A good boss doesn’t give a shit about whether the workers do other things during work time, as long as the work is done satisfactorily.
At my last office job, years ago when I was young and lived with my parents and had very few financial obligations, I would always ask to clock out and leave whenever I ran out of work to do for the day. It was always busy mornings and slow afternoons. My boss thought I was insane for not wanting to get paid to sit there and fuck around on Facebook (her exact words.) But to me it was worth losing $30-60 to gain back 3-6 hours of my personal life every week.
The boss and most co-workers were great, and the work wasn’t even bad when it was busy, but just physically being present there was soul-crushing.
Most bosses: hmm but if you worked instead of doing small important things for your family you could four double your productivity instead of only triple it!
Most bosses equate having fun with not working and so not having fun with being productive. However, most workers are in a twilight state of not having fun and not being productive.
twilight state of not having fun and not being productive.
Stop putting me on blast, man
Gotta love how the articles frames it. While at work people “kill time” with tik tok but at home they “goof off” folding laundry
Corpo propaganda and normies larp it.
I feel like they’re just trying to use variety in their wording and either configuration would have upset you
I can tell you it wouldn’t… We usually do not have multiple words because they are completely and 100% interchangeable.
It is the exact same message manipulation when a cop outright murders someone the headline often says something super tangential like “Perp lost life in altercation with police”… words matter and you’d expect journalist to know this
I still think it’s overly cynical and not likely to be a conspiracy in this case but I do agree that it’s a general concern, highlighted especially now with the genocide in Gaza, so I don’t think you’re wrong to feel that way. I’m still choosing to be charitable in this case, however.
I still think it’s overly cynical
Definitely could be… I know this of myself and I have been working on it
I think many of us feel that way, given how the world has evolved in my adult life I don’t blame anyone.
Killing time implies you have time to kill. Goofing off implies avoiding work you need to do.
I’m killing time right now because there’s nothing to do but yet I can’t go home and clean up the clutter that’s accumulated from being stuck at work all day with nothing to do.
The first hour in the office was spent staring at the screen wiggling the mouse from time to time when the screen saver came on because too tired from commuting every day. But, it was at the office so it was productive staring I guess.
Haha it’s so ridiculous that these articles never take into consideration that people in the office don’t have a lot of productive time.
I had the same, I would have a somewhat easy first hour, then spend 2 to 3 hours really focusing and then I’d basically be done for the day and would spend some time idling after lunch until I deemed it was an appropriate time to leave and “work some more from home”.
My best year billability wise was the first year of the covid lockdowns, I managed to generate something like 25% more just because of being able to work from home and cutting back on the travel time to customers and being able to multi-task occasionally when I had a quiet day for a customer. I’m glad I live in the Netherlands, hybrid/remote working seems like it’ll remain over here at least.
And they they go on about the free flow of ideas, innovations and cooperation. Please, we were all sitting there with headphones trying to isolate ourselves to get anything done because some manager would always be on a loud phone call and using a meeting space to work was forbidden.
Driving to customers or flying to the other side of the world for a meeting was such a big time sink.
It also reminds me of the story of Rotterdam harbour where they just couldn’t find any people anymore. Turns out that the cost of commuting was so high, people made more money doing lower paid work closer to home.
Turns out that the cost of commuting was so high, people made more money doing lower paid work closer to home.
This is true for a lot of people everywhere. It’s often ridiculous the amount of time and money lost from commutes that gets forgotten about.
For me commuting outside the city costs at least an hour of time every day, and $1+/hour in fuel weekly that I don’t get paid. For me WFH is like a $1.50+/hr raise that is far more convenient and stress reducing than a better paying job.
Ah the bullshit justifications of open office plans. If I want free communication with my coworkers I’ll go communicate with them. If I need to be left alone to focus let me
Starring in your own office movie.
Office Space is a documentary
And in the office there are people who literally hang out at the coffee machine for 30-60 minutes at a time, talking to everyone who comes by under the guise of “networking”.
The media gotta stop reporting on the laundry like it’s the equivalent of stealing from the company.
It’d be cool if the media did a piece about how companies are stealing the excess labor of their employees. It will never happen though because “the media” also steals the excess labor from it’s employees.
Maybe the solution to return-to-work is manufacturing a bunch of fake news about remote workers being significantly less likely to unionize and more likely to take an ass pounding from corporate overlords?
The thing is, you don’t even need to manufacture a good story. You could tell the true story of how companies have slashed overhead by reducing the amount of office space needed or how employees working from home turn out to be just as if not more productive than those working in the offices and happier with their jobs besides.
There were companies planning to move more jobs to work from home even before the pandemic because it’s a model that just makes more sense for a lot of positions. The return to office crowd could be beaten simply by pointing out the for most positions, working on-site is a needless expense. The problem is, the media isn’t willing to tell that story.
The real estate tycoons who lease out the office buildings are the reason for the return to office push by the media. They must continue to justify their existence at all costs.
I worked with people who could easily spend 30 minutes scrolling social media while pooping.
Don’t shame my post-meeting decompression.
We have people here working maximum 1 hour per day, in the home office they can at least not stop others from working.
So, I work in a maintenance position that really isn’t possible to do remotely but we have a fair amount of desk work too. We’re in the process of setting up a workstation to program and new head ends for our systems. The first thing on everyone’s list when we were deciding on a location was “as far from everyone else as possible” because we all know that other people being around to make small talk is a distraction that will easily double the time it takes to get this shit done.
In every maintenance position I’ve had, every one of us has had our own secret workspaces where most other guys didn’t know to look for us just so that we could get some desk work done in peace. Co-workers are a distraction more often than they are a help and I think we’ve all known this for years.
I agree, though I have to admit that my kitties yelling at me for pets (one is especially loud) while I’m on the phone is a bit of a nuisance. But I’ll take that over the old office I was in where there’d be three conversations competing across space rather than people just walking over to the desk of a coworker and talking at a normal volume. God, I hated that!
You think that’s bad, wait until you hear about the shareholders and landlords.
They dont even have to pretend to work to get paid.
There is a class difference in there though… Some people own while others slave
Thats exactly what I mean. My aim is to point out the ridiculousness of them trying to moralise it, by making the people who ease off a little bit to put to washing on out to be lazy and undeserving of their wages etc.
That wrath for people not working or “slacking off” slightly while getting paid is only reserved for poor people.
The regime relies on plebs larping this bushit.
If tomorrow every fucking wage slave got a pair of balls and started acting like daddy capitalist, half of issues would be solved and parasites would be punished.
But instead of we got bootlickers serving as regime enforcers 🤡
I’m not sure I get what you’re saying tbh. I’ve probably read it wrong but it almost seems like you’re saying the way out of capitalism is to capitalism harder.
There is nothing capitalism about advocating for yourself but some how regime was able to convince people that only capitalist are allowed to do it and peasants agreed to larp at disadvantage to themselves… Adult people 🤡
If only someone would’ve thought to that and tried it before. It could’ve saved everyone so much time.
If they’re mad about people shopping while working from home I have bad news.
People shop from their phones while working at the job site too. I see several of my coworkers doing this frequently. Shit, I’ve done it.
Sure, we can’t shower on site unless you’re a firefighter or something, or have a gym at workplace, but still.
Employers need to reign in their power hungry bullshit. You don’t own your employees, and if the work is getting done on time, you have nothing to complain about.
When I used to work in office:
- Wake up at 7am, get ready to go and take a 1 hour commute in, usually there by 9:00
- Try to find parking, walk to office, morning break room coffee and chatter, usually settle in around 9:30
- Get interrupted multiple times by desk drive bys
- Take 2 hour lunch around noon with multiple coworkers because why not
- Get interrupted multiple times by desk drive bys
- Leave at 4 to try and avoid some traffic
Now that I work from home:
- Wake up and hop online to work, usually settle in by 7:30am
- No desk drive by interruptions
- Eat at my desk during meetings or while simultaneously working
- Sometimes start laundry or something during the day, but who cares?
- Usually work later than 5
Every time I get asked about going back into an office my response is “Why would you want me to be far less productive?”
To collaborate with the team, of course…
My friend’s job has hybrid RTO and it basically means half the team is still out when you’re in the office so they still meet on Zoom/Teams, haha…what a waste
Same here… we get one day in the office, I have tried to make the best of it but nobody cares, I find myself there with less than half the team to:
-
hop around until I get a desk where everything I need works
-
get interrupted by people not on my team all the time because why not say hi
-
get complaints because all my meetings are Teams anyway and everyone is mad they hear a crowd when I am not muted
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Lose 45 mins of my life getting ready and another 1.5 in traffic (round trip) to work less in the office
You are missing the best part, the highly increased chance of dying from the most dangerous form of modern day travel.
I miss risking my life every day for a job.
-
The other reality is that even with full RTO, in a position like mine, I’m working with groups spanning about 12hrs of time zones. I’m not seeing half the group anyway, so what’s the point of going in when everyone is still taking the calls at their desks?
So that we feel vindicated in actually owning your productive time. So that management can show they add value by watching you work.
Sounds like they take micro breaks, which is not only healthy, but can help with productivity.
Is anyone complaining about this?
Billionaires whose commercial real estate investments are tanking
Supply and demand is a fickle bitch.
Excuse me while I go cry a river for the real estate tycoons who will have to sell off their yachts.
Those refis gonna have to happen but fed lowered the interest rates for them… These clowns never lose as we are always there to bail them with policy or straight hand outs of cash lol
Managera who have nothing better to do
I’ll absolutely turn off the camera and do laundry or make lunch during a Teams meeting. I’m still on the audio and participate. I’m just able to be productive at work AND at home simultaneously.
Right? Shocker, I’m able to listen to a thing actively and vocally contribute while doing something mindless like doing/folding laundry or making food because they use different parts of my brain.
The meat mech is capable of doing something physical with no thought, while engaging language processing for something else.
This was my experience as well but I found it a drag. My family loved me working from home, because I did more of the housework, great dinners on time, basically I did more so then they did less. Wildly productive overall, yes. Work took longer for me, less condensed, probably better work product that way, so sure everyone was getting better work from me but it was unbalanced. Husband and kids did less.
I don’t have a commute really, 20 minute walk or 4 minute drive, which I know is unusual, but I do like working in the office and leaving my laptop there better. Work stays at work. It’s not a strong preference, would do either but life more balanced for me with the office job.
