• The Picard Maneuver
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    5 months ago

    They talk about a few causes, but this is the gist of it for anyone who doesn’t want to click:

    Researchers cited the pandemic as the biggest factor in the widening gender gap; it took a heavier toll on men. Unintentional injuries and poisonings (mostly drug overdoses), accidents and suicide were other contributors.

    • BrightCandle
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      5 months ago

      Still is, men are still dying more from Covid and in excess deaths from related conditions that are elevated like heart attacks and strokes.

      The declining cd4 and cd8 cell counts however will strike men and women equally over time.

    • @ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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      155 months ago

      There are also studies that show men are less likely to got to a doctor or they go to late. In part that is because most male bodies tend to take longer before heavy symptoms are coming up but then they progress faster.

      It has something to do with differences in immune system of men and women. When for example a man and a woman are infected with the same amount of viruses the women’s immune system will react faster so she gets symptoms earlier and goes to the doctor earlier as well. The man won’t have any symptoms but then the infection will suddenly progress fast when a critical amount of viruses is reached.

      It’s of course more complex and there are tons of studies about it, but I think that’s something to keep in mind “in practice”.

      This comes on top of the gender stereotypes which make some men shun the doctor.

        • Nepenthe
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          5 months ago

          I warned my ex to be safe when the biology of it was just beginning to be understood back in March/April 2020, and his exact response was, “It’s not like I’m going to die.” He says, occupying every high risk category except “immunocompromised.”

          So yeah, apparently.

        • @clearleaf@lemmy.world
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          85 months ago

          I remember when I was growing up my parents were always saying “son you better kill yourself if you want to get married.” And on wrestling night, Randy Savage used to stand up on the turnbuckles and shout “AFTER THIS, MACHO MAN IS GONNA BLOW HIS BRAINS OUT.” He was a big role model for me.

          • kase
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            35 months ago

            “son you better kill yourself if you want to get married.”

            I think I’m missing something, is this supposed to make sense? You can’t get married if you’re dead afaik

            • 520
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              55 months ago

              They’re being facetious by imagining if intentional suicide was part of male culture in the same way excessive risk taking is.

      • @kautau@lemmy.world
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        295 months ago

        Fuck Joe Rogan. At some level I want to say “if you are really going to take advice from Joe Rogan and other idiots online, Darwin will just be checking off posthumous boxes,” but I’ve seen too many family members be trapped and warped by social media into believing garbage that I realize it’s the fault of the system. People have always profited off of needless human death, it’s way worse though when it’s a podcaster spewing garbage.

    • @scarabic@lemmy.world
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      55 months ago

      Men trend more conservative than women overall (6 in 10 committed conservatives are men - pew) so more of them probably fell for the disinformation and denialism during the pandemic. Yes, we know that Republicans died more from COVID, to the tune of 15% more excess deaths.

  • @_number8_@lemmy.world
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    1295 months ago

    i wonder if this is correlated with the loneliness increase / the loneliness gap. if you’re a guy, lonely, prone to depression, in a crumbling post-capitalist society that’s getting more malignant by the day…how much will to live can you have

    • @EssentialCoffee@midwest.social
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      295 months ago

      Nah, the older men I know either won’t go to a doctor because they didn’t need them when they were younger, are scared of them, can man up through whatever pain they have, whatever. These are folks with Medicare, so at least access to doctors. These are all married men with kids. They don’t go until they’re literally forced to and by then, it’s already too late and they just die.

      • @intensely_human@lemm.ee
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        175 months ago

        I won’t go to a doctor because my experience with doctors is they tell me I’m imagining it, refuse to order any tests, then send me a bill for hundreds of dollars for the privilege of hearing them gaslight me about my symptoms.

        I won’t open up emotionally to people for similar reasons: experience of it going wrong.

      • @Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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        115 months ago

        Sounds all too familiar. I blame the pain pendulum swinging too far the other way. Doctors do a he’ll of a lot more then manage pain… but to a patient pain is usually the number one reason they are in front of the doctor. When the doctor will not even write the smallest script to alleviate their pain, or even worse accuses them of being a drug seeker either directly or with their indirect language (that we can all read through) men tend to give up. If you can’t even help me with the easiest part, or are going to become adversarial about it then what’s the point of going to the doctor? Obviously that question is rhetorical…

        They really need to loosen their grip on low level pain meds and really start diverting people into pain management programs when necessary. This opioid backlash has only hurt the general public. Pain doesn’t just disappear if you don’t treat it, this just leads more people into buying diverted scripts, becoming their own doctor and then eventually using fentanyl pills or just “heroin”.

        • @lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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          125 months ago

          I don’t go to the doctor because even with insurance it’s too expensive. The whole billing system is complicated as fuck and makes it impossible to predict how much an appointment will cost. Then on top of that if you need more tests or specialists that’s a huge pain in the ass. My mom got to the point that managing my grandparents healthcare shit was basically a full time job. Nooo thanks I’ll just off myself if I get to that point.

          • @Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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            5 months ago

            That’s a whole nother layer, and is also why I have a decade gap in my medical history. Then the doctors and nurse practitioners have the gall to gasp that I haven’t seen a doctor regularly in 10 years…

            One protip is if you don’t own anything, you can just let those bills go to the void of collections. Collections will run a hard game at first, just trying to recoup the 2% it paid for the debt. But after awhile they give up… can’t draw blood from a stone.

        • @MajesticSloth@lemmy.world
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          275 months ago

          I think as men get older, we also tend to have less close friends than women. Or at least it sure seems to be that way for many. Saw it with my dad before we lost him last year. I see it with my brother and myself. It has brought me and my brother somewhat closer in that we text and talk more than we used to despite not living close and being pretty different personalizes.

          I have a few close friends, but not male ones. I had to stop working at a young age and I feel that is when I stopped having a connection to any sort of male bonding.

          But I agree, that it still seems unacceptable to open up, share feelings, and be vulnerable as a man. Probably why I have mostly had women as close friends most of my adult life.

          • WashedOver
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            25 months ago

            I have to wonder about the generalized differences between men and women not helping here either.

            Men can bond over problem solving or following a sport /passion. Work often helps create an environment for plenty of problem solving and sharing of sports.

            Women typically share about most things and want to just be heard with their gf’s and that is a wider bandwidth to contribute to a relationship with. A listening partner to vet their feelings with often.

            Men typically are either figuring out their hierarchy subconsciously and couldn’t afford to share their losses as easily. Plus most men don’t really want to hear it. Older men often don’t know how to deal with it. There’s a reason a lot of our happy places are places where we don’t seem to think like fishing, watching sports, etc

            I discovered after my father passed unexpectedly from a heart attack the majority of his male friends were those with health issues that he was helping out with from rides to doctors, to money for things like medicine. He didn’t follow sports and outside of gambling didn’t really have hobbies.

            I didn’t really put that together until years later when I looked back with this problem solving mindset. All those men that came up to me at his funeral were men he helped in one way or another. Some of them were going to lose some of the freedom he provided with his ability to still drive and shuttle them around. I’m not sure what friends he had outside of this dynamic during his short lived retirement. When I called his old co-workers that I knew of when I was younger to inform them of his passing often they had not seen or heard from him since they last worked together.

            It’s something my lonewolf personality is going to need to address as I get older too.

      • @cynar@lemmy.world
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        335 months ago

        Men and women seem to make friends differently. Men have more of a tendency to make friends through work. The change in work culture can cause these to collapse more easily. It’s particularly harsh at retirement. They not only lose their day-to-day reason to go on, but the friendship net that should help them.

        By comparison, women tend to make friends independently of work. This makes their friendships more tolerant to changing jobs, or leaving work. Women also seem to be better at maintaining friendships at a distance.

        Lastly, there is the (slightly controversial) glass floor. It’s the inverse of the glass ceiling. Both men and women have a bias to help women in distress over men. This makes it a lot more likely that someone will step in to help, before the downward spiral gets too deep. This is partially why men make up a large proportion of the homeless.

          • credit crazy
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            -45 months ago

            In terms of making friend stats I don’t know of any study’s but I do find it extremely believable from my life. My dad is probably the only man I know of to have a friend group and even then it’s just him and one other guy. Meanwhile I walk around and see women walking around exclusively in groups. I suppose it really doesn’t help that in the place I’m from socializing with coworkers is considered lazy and generally shushed.

      • @ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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        5 months ago

        It isn’t. When you look at studies they reveal that loneliness is very prevalent in multiple groups of people and in general. In some studies older women are the most lonely group.

        Gender and Age Differences in Loneliness: Evidence for People without and with Disabilities

        Gender Differences in Loneliness Over Time: A 15-Year Longitudinal Study of Men and Women in the Second Part of Life

        There is much activity by anti-feminists in particular to push the narrative that men are the most lonely group and that of course the reason are women. This is heavily pushed by media because people seemingly like that idea more than that gender stereotypes targeting men are potentially more at fault.

        • @Katana314@lemmy.world
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          15 months ago

          I mean, gender stereotypes still tend to be sourced by a person. It makes sense the most stretched stereotypes would come from people that don’t actually fall into the demographic themselves. You wouldn’t hear Mexicans claim “Oy mijo, we are all so lazy!”

        • @I_hate_you_welcome@feddit.nl
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          15 months ago

          Of course, because if men ever have it bad, it’s their own fault and of course women actually have it worse. And now you know why mortality for men is so high.

      • arefx
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        25 months ago

        This is the energy I wish everyone carried.

      • @pahlimur@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Women are better at expressing that are lonely. From what I understand it’s unclear who is more lonely because men don’t admit to being lonely. It’s probably more important to not argue about and just be aware that old people are often very lonely.

        • @ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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          -105 months ago

          I agree. But I think to increase life expectancy in men it’s important to look into the diverse causes instead of letting the discussion being guided by anti-feminists who really do not seem to put men’s health and happiness first but rather their ideology.

          Harping on one potentially non-deciding factor and leaving those factors that are known to be important behind because they don’t fit their ideology is not helping men.

          • @pahlimur@lemmy.world
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            225 months ago

            Yep and going around arguing that women are more lonely doesn’t add much to the discussion IMO. It’s not a competition and the output of dying younger is the primary fact we know about gender health differences.

            It is a complicated discussion with a lot more inputs than just loneliness though. The anti feminist angle is kind of strange, never thought much of it.

    • @PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
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      -175 months ago

      I want to kill myself because I hate myself, not because of capitalism. This kind of doomer shit doesn’t fucking help anyone. The absolute hopeless outlook of people on social media is pathological at this point.

      You’re all loved. You’re valid. We’re not gonna let anyone murder you en masse. Things will get better. It might be slower than we’d like at times, but nobody has been able to stop progress yet.

  • @ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
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    665 months ago

    That’s fine. My job as a man is to die first. Is that toxic masculinity? Yes. Is it stupid? Also yes. But I’d rather die on my lawnmower than acknowledge feelings. I will go out 6 years early like a man.

    • @___@lemm.ee
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      205 months ago

      I will work 12hr days and sacrifice my health for my family. Toxic maybe, but my duty as a man.

      • BlanketsWithSmallpox
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        5 months ago

        I’ll eat that 12oz sirloin and wash it down with beer and whiskey every night. Just so someone doesn’t call me gay. Doesn’t matter how many dudes I fuck in the ass!

        Get that umbrella away from me faaaag.

      • @daltotron@lemmy.world
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        85 months ago

        You know I really question how many children are gonna grow up in the world basically fatherless, or with an absent father, because there’s this idea that the man has to be the one sacking everything they have in order to “put food on the table”. Gone for most of the day, devoid of energy when they come home, meat on the chopping block. I wonder how many kids would pick a better house, brand name foods, more toys, over more time spent with their dad.

        • This was my dad growing up. (Although my mom worked a lot at her job, too.) He’s since expressed his regret over it, and the sad thing is that at the time we were all perfectly happy for him to work all the time because he was just such a difficult person. But now that he’s retired and had a chance to breathe and heal, he is such a different person and I love spending time with him. We are both cantankerous weirdos with ADHD, and our weekends together are often spent doing projects, losing track of half our tools, and then comparing stories about the dumbest things our impaired attention span has caused us to do.

          Basically, he just needed a chance to be HUMAN.

  • ANGRY_MAPLE
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    645 months ago

    The fact that so many men are dying young should be it’s own issue, full stop. There is no reason to try to start a competition over it, or to try to force the topic to change to something else. This IS important, and it should be treated as such. Gain some empathy.

    Did women get the rights to vote and wear pants just because they secretly wanted to? No. They fought against the standards of the time, and they had support from other groups. They didn’t have that support just because of their genetics, but also because other people had some goddamned empathy. We need to move past the “fuck you, I got mine” as a society if we EVER want things to be good overall. Nothing really excludes you from doing that, at least not if you actually care about others. I don’t even really care if someone has a damned disco ball down there, it’s horrible that people feel the NEED to live in a way that cuts their life short.

    If you hear that a large group of people is dying young, the correct response is to figure out why, and solve it. The correct response is not to turn it into a competition or to blame the people who died so young. The correct response is to try to find a solution, and to possibly literally save lives. You are a bad person if you are happily ok with this going on. If you hate half of the population so badly that you don’t care about their death, you have no business telling that population how to live or how to be happy.

    It’s tragic really. Imo, this is yet another situation where tradition and societal pressures kill people. Don’t be miserable to try to make dead people happy. Dead people who cared so little, that they didn’t put anything in place to help you in the future. Dead people who only cared about what they personally experienced during their time on earth. Dead people who had a very large hand in causing most of the pain that these people are feeling today.

    Dudes reading this, I know it might be difficult depending on where you are, but please check up on your friends. Don’t tease them when they open up about serious things, and please listen to them talking about things they love. Change starts with you, and it starts with me. We can make a new future, and we don’t have to keep trying to please the people who will never see it.

    Try to not be too hard on yourself, you’re probably doing the best that you can. Your best might “look like” 20% one day, and 80% the next, but it will still be YOUR 100%. You are only human, and no one is perfect. Please keep up the hobbies that you love, and always look towards better and brighter things. Some days that might be looking forwards to Friday, and other days that might be discovering a new passion. Love unconditionally, and build yourself and others up relentlessly. The odds that you specifically exist are so miniscule that it could almost be considered a miracle.

    Even if it might not feel like it today, you are important. You have value. No one else out there has your exact combination of attributes, and only you can fill that role. Even if you’re in your 50’s, you can still pursue your passions and dreams. Many of the people who poop on your ambitions are people who regret not fulfilling their own. Don’t listen to angry people for live advice, as their methods are the best way to stay angry.

    Please keep doing your best, and best wishes to y’all. It’s tough out there and I can’t imagine how tough it would feel to go at it alone. Strive for a better tomorrow, and never give up. Giving up is the only way to guarantee that this continues.

    • Cosmic Cleric
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      5 months ago

      The fact that so many men are dying young should be it’s own issue, full stop. There is no reason to try to start a competition over it, or to try to force the topic to change to something else. This IS important, and it should be treated as such.

      Did women get the rights to vote and wear pants just because they secretly wanted to? No.

      Sorry, couldn’t resist.

      • ANGRY_MAPLE
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        5 months ago

        Tbh I only mentioned it because I saw other comments trying to turn the post into yet another game “who has it worse” or “who can we blame so we don’t have to put any effort into fixing it”.

        I also saw some toxic comments stating that men should just pull themselves out of it. I brought up the rights situation because it was another scenario that required more than just one group of people to make any prop