Updated: Israel denies involvement in deadly Gaza hospital blast, says explosion caused by Islamic Jihad
How many more civilians need to die for the Western democracies to start openly condemning Israel. This is making me so sick. And it shows the double standards that we have.
And I am tired of hearing that Israel has the right to defend themselves, this doesn’t give them the right to cause humanitarian catastrophe, displace hundreds of thousands and kill a disproportionate number of people.
A right to self-defense is not a blank check to commit war crimes.
And the Western governments are being so hypocritical, that we are attracting the anger of a billion Muslims and others who sympathize with the Palestinians.
We are risking the safety of our own civilians by supporting the war crimes by an apartheid state. And it brings us no benefit, at all.
This madness has to stop. We should be neutral and stop supporting apartheid in Israel. Condemn terrorism by Hamas and war crimes by Israel, but stop supporting Israel and let them figure it out with their Arab neighbours.
If Israel really wanted protection they would offer a peace treaty and guarantees to not take any more land with Gaza if Palestinians handed over every member of Hamas for prosecution / imprisonment / execution.
But they want that land so they don’t care how many civilians deaths it takes, they like having Hamas there because it provides them excuses.
Seems like you like having Hamas there because it gives you an excuse to attack Israel. You’re literally supporting terrorists who would kill you without hesitation.
This is a catastrophically bad take on what they said. Condemnation of Israeli war crimes does not equal antisemitism or an endorsement of Hamas. You can abhor Hamas and Israeli war crimes at the same time, the two are not mutually exclusive.
But I suspect you already knew that.
The comment I was replying to literally said Israel was doing all this so they could take the Gaza land from the Palestinians using Hamas as an excuse. That’s not condemnation, that’s inventing a reason to hate Israel.
It is a fact that Israel under Netanyahu empowered and propped up Hamas. An indisputable fact. Thus a logical argument can be made that Israel stood to benefit from Hamas in power. Not sure what’s made up about that.
Again, criticism of Israel does not equal hatred of Israel or antisemitism in any way. It’s a bad faith argument to act like they’re the same.
And again, Hamas is completely responsible for their own actions, no matter who they’re taking money from. It’s like saying the U.S. is responsible for war crimes because they’ve given money to Israel. The actors in the scene are responsible for what they do. In the context of the user I was replying to, they clearly stated Israel is supporting Hamas so they can take Gaza for themselves. That’s what I disputed. That’s not criticism, it’s manufactured.
Bibbi outright said Hamas was good for Israel. It’s hilarious you’re calling people sheep when you buy every single piece of propaganda coming from Israel. History matters, context matters. Don’t have an open air concentration camp outside “your city” and your neighbors would like you better. Stop excusing war crimes cause the perpetrators are on your side.
They’re not arguing in good faith, they’re just trying to recontextualize the argument to you defending Hamas and then equating that israel’s response is a just and proper revenge. There’s a bunch of accounts pulling this same shtick all over lemmy recently.
Ah, Israel made the terrorists and it’s Israel’s fault the terrorists attack them. And, what? Israel should allow the terrorists to exist because it’s Israel’s fault? You realize you’re excusing terrorists that would kill you without hesitation? That’s what you’re defending.
Buddy, Come on. This is getting sad.
It is sad, what Hamas did to Israel. Brutalized children. Raped parents. Uploading it to their Facebook. Do you demand Israel continue to live that way? Do you demand they live under 100s of rockets per day launched at them? Because the alternative is dead Palestinians?
Seems like you don’t know that Netanyahu funded Hamas on multiple occasions
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That’s a nice article. It doesn’t matter what Netanyahu did or supported, because fundamentally the terrorists are responsible for their own actions. You can’t say Israel gave money to Hamas, so it’s Israel’s fault they were attacked. Hamas is responsible for deciding to carry out the attack, no matter who they were taking money from. That’s how responsibility works. And, because of what Hamas did, Israel is right to defend itself.
There’s already been 2 terrorist attacks in Europe and based on the evacuations of public spaces in France it seems like it’s only the start. I’m not sure if it’s all because of the war (the attack in Brussels seems to be more related to ISIS according to the news) but it sure seems like it’s gotten a lot more frequent since it really kicked off last week.
Did you really pay attention to terrorist attacks in Europe prior to last week?
And the last thing we want right now is another war. This would be a disaster and cause so much suffering to all parties involved.
let them figure it out with their Arab neighbours.
I have a bad feeling that would result in… Well, more obvious genocide than is currently happening. I think the only reason Israel hasn’t already turned all of Gaza into a smoking crater is because they would become a pariah in the international community.
Not that there are better options, and fwiw it’s probably the correct thing to do overall, I’m just worried about the consequences.
is because they would become a pariah in the international community.
It’s not even clear they would.
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It won’t happen because Western Nations are innately racist and supremacist. they see other races below their own, thus their lives less valuable.
OK so taking the fact that Hamas hides themselves and their equipment at places that will force killing civilians to clear targets out, what would you do instead? How would you do it so their attacks would stop, beside alerting civilians and then remove intelled targets (both top org people and equipment)?
Send ground troops instead of leveling an entire city from miles away, from a safe comfy chair where you never have to see all the collateral damage?
That, and ending the apartheid.
Sure, if you want to do it the easy way, but then we don’t get to see all the cool explosions.
In my inexpert eyes, I don’t think group troops will help much because all the info about targets IDF has will become outdated as Hamas will move everything they can. And even if they wouldn’t, letting troops fighting at a foreign place, that the enemy has control at and can prepare amushes and traps at will risk more lives than letting civilians the chance to reposition and live (I don’t take into account the building that gets destroyed, its sad but not worth sacrificing lives for IMO, and that can be fixed with money), and from past lessons (more resources online obviously) I wouldn’t be suprised if Hamas will just use civilians as cover. Ground troops enterance won’t mean no civilian casuallties, Hamas makes sure of it, that’s part of how they get sempathy and support (such a disgusting act, It’s not even about what they’re fighting for at this point. Who acts like that??). And of course that’ll open the option Hamas waiting for the most, kidnapping soldiers.
This didn’t age well, and it’s only 2 hours old
They won’t come back to it and just save it in their memory as another “genocidal attack” by Israel while Hamas apparently just did an Oopsie.
How much propoganda do you need to read before you’re ready to attack Israel? Apparently, not much. Israel has already declared they didn’t do this attack and it was a failed Jihadist missile. Which would you believe, that a nation that has been warning people to evacuate and shown more restraint than any other nation would have by not flattening Gaza, or a literal terrorist organization known for bombing their own citizens? Who is more trustworthy there. You’re drinking the kool-aid and it’s time to put the cup down.
As has been repeated repeatedly, the first casualty of war is the truth.
Do not believe either side. Only independent reports.
If I was Hamas, I would absolutely call whatever happened an air strike from Israel.
If I was Israel, I would absolutely call whatever happened a failed rocket explosion from Hamas.
Do not believe either side. They are both lying.
Agreed. This is a great way for Israel to lose international support and gain more enemies. It’s not … ‘justifiable’ (that word is doing a lot of work) as a part of taking down Hamas.
That’s fine, but that’s not what’s happening in this thread. Plenty of people are quite willing to jump to blame Israel. I am perfectly fine blaming Hamas, the terrorist organization known for attacking its own citizens and blaming Israel. This is exactly out of their play book. Israel gains nothing but condemnation for attacking a hospital and given the restraint they’ve shown so far towards Gaza, it’s simply more likely Hamas than Israel did this.
This is exactly out of Israel’s playbook as well though, they attacked the very same hospital just within the week. “Restraint” towards Gaza? Last I heard there were over 6000 strikes launched by Israel, leveling whole villages, killing entire families. Over 2000 people killed inside Palestine after the first night of retaliation by Israel, striking numerous apartment blocks, hospitals and schools. I doubt anything will change your mind about the righteousness of Israel but I just want to point this out in case anyone thinks you have a good point.
And any other nation would have destroyed the whole Gaza strip after the first few 1000 rockets that were launched at them. What Israel continues to show is a measured restraint unlike any other nation.
Whatever you say buddy, if genocide is restraint then Israel is a fucking saint.
Has Gaza been destroyed yet? That’s restraint. Cry all you want, Israel isn’t the terrorists you make them out to be. The terrorists are the literal terrorist organization with a stated mission to kill all Jews. Are you supporting that?
I am perfectly fine blaming Hamas
Obviously. I’m perfectly fine blaming whoever is responsible, that being Israel or Hamas.
You aren’t. Prove me wrong.
Oh, I don’t have any problem blaming whoever is responsible. The facts will bear out. I’m just saying, factually, this event fits much more in the Hamas playbook than in Israel’s. Do you disagree? Again, Hamas is known for attacking their citizens and blaming Israel, while Isreal has shown more restraint towards Gaza than any other nation would have.
No. I do not agree. Israel are not the good guys here neither is Hamas.
Israel is also known for killing civilians, journalists, and bombing non military targets.
I do not give either side the benefit of doubt based on their history of behavior. Both sides have/are committing war crimes and crimes against humanity.
That’s fine. You realize we’re dealing with a terrorist organization known for killing its own citizens? They’d kill you without hesitation if they thought it would benefit them. Who gains more from bombing this hospital? Hamas, if they manage to successfully blame Israel? Or Israel? Obviously, it’s hamas that has more to gain.
Ugh, what restraint are you talking about? By stopping the electricity, water and food to Gaza, or by forcefully displacing hundreds of thousands or by flattening a whole residential neighbourhood.
I am not defending Hamas, in a perfect world they wouldn’t exist and I would be happy if they are gone forever, but the way Israel is treating Palestinians both in Gaza and in the West bank isn’t exactly a recipe for long lasting peace.
You can’t expect that people would just tolerate whatever shit you give them and there won’t be dissent voices, and radicalization. And don’t start that this is only happening on the Palestinian side, because a lot of Palestinians were simply killed by Israeli settlers.
Both nations are victims of their own propaganda, and it is religion and politics that divide us as humanity. For me everyone deserves a decent life, no matter the skin colour, religious belief or nation, full stop.
It doesn’t matter what Hamas or Palestine does. If they kill everyone in Israel people would cheer for them and perhaps in a sidenote claim “Sucks for the civilians, but yay Palestine!”.
I wonder if they still cheer when the area is under Palestinian control with everything that comes with it. Goodbye LGBTQ and women’s rights.
The IDF has now said that the blast was caused by a failed missile launch from Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
There’s video of the failed launch here
Watch 19:59 to 20:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtruJztXE5w
Also, from Al Jazeera broadcast https://twitter.com/OrianShamriz/status/1714365814160175213?t=WqGUoKEcSpLYf14JOjk_3A&s=19
That seems to just be a live webcam feed.
Yeah I fucked up so I edited in the time stamp
Watch 19:59 to 20:01
Is that 19:59 minutes in or at the time 19:59?
Much appreciated! Thanks!!
My dude live streams work in negative timestamps (T- from live feed), those numbers are useless.
The second video is also not useful without a geographical reference. It’s literally a video shot in the dark of a missile launch.
A much closer video shows an incoming whistle, not an outgoing sound: https://twitter.com/i/status/1714366113818038412
My dude I meant the timestamp from within the Livestream in the top right of the left cam. Local time, not minutes elapsed
A rocket misfiring and hitting a elsewhere in the city (as shown in my video) would make an incoming whistle.
Apparently this guy thinks the missile was launched from inside the hospital or something.
The whistle tells you the direction the rocket came from relative to the position of the camera. We know the rocket had to pass over the camera position before striking the hospital, and from that you can extrapolate where it came from.
None of the videos purporting to show a misfired rocket align with the one verified video showing the strike. The video posted by idf of what they claim is the rocket barrage responsible for hitting the hospital was shown to have been taken after the hospital strike (and has since been removed from their post).
There is a lot of finger pointing and blame going on right now. I’m less inclined to believe the side misrepresenting evidence, but neither side can be trusted on their word alone. This means we need evidence, which is in short supply at the moment.
The first and immediate “irrefutable proof” video Israeli twitter shared, was quickly removed as it was shown to not have the correct timestamp. After that we’ve seen videos of previous Hamas’ rocket barrages from years passed bandied about. Then we have these apparently legit videos that clearly depict something travelling at high speed with an explosion far beyond what Hamas’ rockets do.
So we’re supposed to believe that a hospital (which had been given warning knocks), was coincidentally where the most powerful Hamas rocket blast ever just happened to occur, with a defective rocket nonetheless, traveling at a high enough velocity to sound exactly like a long distance missile hit. All the while the “irrefutable evidence” for this keeps changing by the hour.
Oh yeah and someone contracted by Israeli government for media relations was also immediately confirming the Israeli strike on the hospital, and then took the post down shortly after.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=UtruJztXE5w
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The time on Al Jazeera’s broadcast doesn’t seem to match the time of the attack.
Discrepancies are due to time zones.
See also this (entire) thread:
Al Jazeera’s shown time (Mecca) and Gaza share the same time zone at this time of year. However, I maybe got the time of the attack wrong, it’s unclear.
Time zones would be in full hour differences, not a little over half an hour.
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Misfires happen, but “rocket falls short of target on empty field” isn’t a news story; you’ll never hear about it. You’ll only hear about them when they result in tragedy.
IDF stated that over 450 missiles from the past week launched towards Israel crashed inside Gaza. That’s a 5-10% failure rate which seems reasonable.
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A hospital that’s still standing with a bunch of burnt cars in the parking lot, while some people claim “80% destruction” and “500 dead” after taking a photoshoot in a corner of the parking lot, surrounded by like a dozen dead kids.
It’s a tragedy. It’s also BS, just which way.
Of course they will do that, while for the past days requesting evacuation of the same hospital and suddenly today it’s a misfire?
Did you see the impact? It burned 7 cars. If that caused 500 casualties, I’ll eat my own underwear.
I saw this impact are you doubting that could kill 500 people?
Yes. You need to Google and see just how big of a surface 500 people takes and how densely they would have to be for this explosion to kill them.
No google needed. My hobby is to do this
Plus there’s video of the aftermath. I’ve seen it. But, you think none of those people whipped out their phones?
First of all, even USA has independently confirmed this is not Israel’s fault. Whether you believe them or not, is kind of pointless. But 500 people there were not. It’s a parking lot with 7 cars destroyed. If there were 500 people jammed there scenery would look entirely different. And am not saying there are no injured, but that number of 500 was pulled out of the ass at the moments notice to point a finger at Israel as soon as possible. Hamas loves doing that and they’ve done it in the past.
The U.S. is independent from Israel in about the same way China is independent from North Korea. “Confirmation” isn’t worth a cent, we need proof.
The “precise” number that’s been circulating is 471. People have been taking shelter at hospitals all over the Gaza Strip due to the air bombardment and evacuation order. So a whole lot of people in/around a hospital courtyard here, not that unreasonable. Shoulder to shoulder, that’s about a square of 22 x 22 people, a crowd of people.
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Prove it. You’re defending Hamas, a literal terrorist organization known for attacking its citizens. They blow their citizens up and blame Israel, then the Arab community unites to call for death to Israel. This is exactly what they do. Are you a sheep, so easily herded? Pull the wool from your eyes.
Israel has killed 36x as many children as Hamas. https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
Thanks for that absolutely irrelevant fact. Civilians die in war. One side of this war is a democratic government, the other is a literal terrorist organization. Are you defending terrorists today? Is that what you woke up to do on the internet?
So when the Hamas murders children in Israel they are terrorists but when the IDF does the same thing in Gaza it’s “civilians die in war”. You either have to be really stupid or cruel to make this argument work in your head. Probably both.
Israel has the luxury of using plausible deniability as an excuse when accused of targeting civilians.
Yes, now you’re getting it. One is terrorism, the other is defence from that terrorism. The destruction of Hamas is the fastest way to stop the death of innocents on both sides. Israel could have accomplished this by destroying all of Gaza, but instead they show restraint in trying to minimize civilian casualties, and they will risk the assured death of even more of their own citizens by invading to root out Hamas.
You do realize Hamas is the result of Israeli apartheid and occupation? They even helped create it. Israel has been bombing Gaza for years and Hamas doesn’t seem to get any weaker. Your argument is just a way for you to keep moving the goal posts towards complete genocide.
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Wait I’m lost which one is which again?
Forreal though, you’re just shifting the goalposts like crazy. They weren’t defending hamas, they were calling the IDF liars. Which… yeah, this claim is a pretty reasonable thing to be skeptical about since they were touting that the hospital was hamas HQ and they ordered the evacuation of gaza city earlier this week?
When you’re quick to call Israel liars while careful to avoid denouncing Hamas, it becomes clear which side you’re supporting.
Well you just shift more goals than the FIFA groundskeeping staff, dontcha.
For anyone curious about what this person is doing:
They start by putting words in the mouth of the other user, in a way that could broadly be interpreted as inline with their position but a lot more extreme. (ex: calling isreal a liar. I didn’t, I just implied they are clearly too biased to be a reliable source, close but more extreme.)
From there, they quickly move on to another more extreme claim that might not even be slightly related to the initial users point. The aim with this step is to force acceptance of the initial false claim they made, by blitzing you with a much more extreme claim. If you defend yourself here, it tacitly implies acceptance of the first claim, because you naturally jump to defending yourself from the most extreme claim first. (ex: Saying I’m not denouncing hamas. Of course I am, fuck hamas, they’re terrorist monsters. I dont have to say it in every comment though, especially if its not the topic at hand)
Then at the end they drop a false equivalence on us, tied to the acceptance of the false claim at the start. In this case the equivalence is that by not supporting something you clearly are tacitly approving of that thing. (btw: “which side you’re supporting” coward, just accuse me of supporting hamas. Oh, right, you won’t, because I didn’t/don’t, and you know it…)
Ironic? yes! The explotation of a social rule for their benefit and then rigidly applying that rule to someone else is a classic troll move!
Of course this is bullshit, and it’s bullshit that hinges on you having juuuust enough of an emotional reaction to their attempt that you don’t notice the whole thing hinges on you falling into the trap of accepting something is what you said when you, in fact, said no such thing.
And yes, I am arguing past them. It’s another classic troll move gleaned from my days as a shithead child on 4chan. But I like to think I’m not a shithead any more (might be lying to myself…). I’d also like to think that maybe reading this will keep someone out there from falling for this kind of bullshit in the future.Who knows.
Anyways, isreal sucks. So does hamas, but I just want to be clear how absolutely much isreal is just absolutely noshing down on a colossal plate of homoerotic dicks because of this. Both of them are, of course, but to be clear that “both” very much includes isreal as one of the two. The other one is hamas. But the dirst one is Isreal.
I’m defending Palestinians who have in no way elected Hamas, and who are killed by an elected government because some random terrorist organization happens to be residing in the same literal prison they are trapped in by the same named elected government.
literal prison
Figurative prison. Gazans can leave Gaza, it’s just hard and they generally don’t want to (sort of the main point of this entire conflict is that both parties are passionately attached to the land). Those who emigrate generally head to Europe, as they are not welcomed in nearby nations.
They can’t really though. To Israel they can only if Israel issues them permits. So they can’t. Israel bombed their airport in 2001, so they can’t fly. The border crossing with Egypt is not always open and also subject to Egypt letting them in. Also, they don’t have passports that are recognized by any nation. So they really have very few options.
Your defense is useless. Insofar as Israel should stop killing innocents, you have no solution to letting terrorism fester at their borders. No solution to the 1000s of rockets launched at them. No solution to the constant threat of invasion and brutalization of their citizens. You have to say that you support Palestinians, because there’s nothing you can say to stop an organization that demands nothing less than the death of all Jews. So, who do you care to support? Will you allow the Israelis to die because that means Palestinians don’t suffer? Or will you allow the Palestinians to die so that Hamas can be destroyed?
Terrorist is only when those without power use violence I guess. What about all the dead Palestinian civilians?
They’re both terrorist organizations. One is just more well armed with more international support.
Prove it. You’re defending Israel, a literal terrorist state…
Such a stupid argument. Israel’s kill count is much higher. Which one is worse?
This community doesn’t care. They are anti-semitic. Any excuse to openly call for death to Israel will be taken advantage of. The facts are irrelevant.
Being against the genocide of gazans isn’t anti-semitism. God damn it this is basic shit, how many times does this shit have to be explained.
And if you’re taking the IDF’s word at face value… lol
That’s one of the most frustrating things about discussing this. Racists and antisemites are running free and forcing us to be wary. You’ve got people saying it’s okay for Israel to kill kids, but wrong of Hamas to. You’ve got people refusing to condemn Hamas for their attack, and instead blaming it all on Israel.
This issue has way more extremists than usual, and it’s exhausting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtruJztXE5w
Here’s a live cam shot of the misfire. Watch 19:59 to 20:01
Current speculation is that it hit ammo stores in or near the hospital, which is a common Hamas war crime.
Also from Al Jazeera https://twitter.com/OrianShamriz/status/1714365814160175213?t=WqGUoKEcSpLYf14JOjk_3A&s=19
The timestamp for the misfire panel is a half hour prior to the hospital being hit.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=UtruJztXE5w
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
From the article:
The HAMAS-RUN Health Ministry in the Gaza Strip says at least 500 people have been killed in an explosion that it says was caused by an Israeli airstrike.
So you won’t trust Israel but you’ll trust Hamas? Lmao.
You’re right, I was hasty. I’ll reserve my judgement for when there’s better information out there. Hamas is absolutely not to be trusted either.
Thank you for saying that.
Much better to take a literal terrorist organization’s word at face value despite video evidence to the contrary, of course.
Who? The Israeli government? I don’t believe anything they or hamas say on face value.
I don’t see you protesting the deaths of Israelite? You know, that thing Hamas did that started the current events? Also, you realize you’re taking anti-Israeli propaganda at face value? That’s what al Jazeera is now. As others posted, there’s videos of the rocket misfire.
Who stands more to gain from this? A terrorist organization known for attacking its own citizens and blaming it on Israel? Or a nation that will receive universal condemnation for such an event?
Fuck Hamas, and fuck the Israeli government. Let’s wait for more reporting to verify who killed 500 people in a hospital (fuck whoever did that). But in the meantime maybe don’t be claiming anti semitism when people ask for genocide to stop?
Did you say that because you were reading my other comments? How about you read the one where I link to people calling for death to Israel because of this event. What else would you call people who openly eat anti-Israeli propaganda and call for their death?
OH NO!?! CONDEMNATION?!? THE HORROR!!
Condemnation is fine, but you better have your facts correct before you go making a mistake.
If anyone has love for Jewish people, for any people, they should condemn Israel. You are wrong. This attitude has helped allow the slaughter of thousands of innocent people over decades. To condemn Israel is to have humanity. To support the Palestinian people’s struggle for freedom is to support justice. I love Jewish people, I’ve studied the Holocaust, I’ve spent massive time studying Nazism, modern movements and the history. The actions of the Israeli government and the IDF must be stopped by all means necessary.
No, I love Jewish people too but I support Israel’s right to defend itself. The Palestinian people can’t go free so long as there exists among them organizations that long for the destruction of Israel and all Jews. The quickest path to freedom for Palestine and the fewest loss of innocents is the elimination of Hamas. Sorry, but that’s how this works. If there is cancer in the body, you kill good cells to kill the cancer. You must, or else you yourself will be destroyed. I don’t celebrate the deaths of innocents on either side. But I am at least aware that with Israel, there is the possibility of peace. With Hamas, there can never be.
This rhetoric… I’ve seen it before. I can’t believe my eyes.
Hamas doesn’t exist in the west bank, so why are people there getting killed?
Good that you studied the Holocaust. Because this is how Nazis justified their genocide and it’s also how Hamas and similar groups justify their violence:
If there is cancer in the body, you kill good cells to kill the cancer.
Israel ambassador to the UN literally gave the cancer analogy a couple hours ago IIRC. Didn’t say “kill good cells” though.
Maybe if the IDF wasn’t busy blowing up journalists (again) we could get some credible information.
From the article:
The Hamas-run Health Ministry in the Gaza Strip says at least 500 people have been killed in an explosion that it says was caused by an Israeli airstrike.
Who needs journalists when you have Hamas to report for you. That’s apparently acceptable for this community of news.
It’s everybody else that is wrong, not me! /s
Appeal to majority fallacy. Though yes that guy is full of it.
Clearly you are very stupid.
Well this oughta change a few hearts and minds. War is hell, but this is a straight up crime.
Yeah they aren’t victims they have been doing shit like this to Palestinian for long time.
And all the UN resolutions condemning them and all the human rights watch groups exposing them and still not an open condemnation from any Western democracy.
Seriously I want to see what Biden will say after this. If he continues to support this regime, it would be a disgrace
And the answer was?
“Based on what I’ve seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not you,”
Biden says after fully hugging Netanyahu. So that’s a point for spineless apologist that will always see Israel as a team sport that only his side is the good one.
Reminder that Grandpa already had to walk back (or his PR team did for him since he didn’t actually say anything about it personally other than the lie) about dozens of beheaded Israeli children.
So, don’t expect that condemnation any time soon no matter what Israel does. He clearly won’t ever mind.This shouldn’t be a controversial take either. Even WITHIN Israel, the majority of Israeli’s want Netanyahu and his administration gone. There were massive protests over months over the years of corruption. There are criminal charges filed against him and his family. Right now after the attacks, there are widespread calls for his resignation and an investigation into why the response to the initial attacks were so bad.
Given all that, it doesn’t make sense for any world leader to continue to support his administration. Especially if countries are meant to be allies of the Israeli people.
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Idk, hes at least going to Israel and has two carrier groups next door. Geopolitics is always a game of “pin the tail on the utter bastard” (Historical example: Belgium still has chocolate cookies in the shape of hands! Thanks, leo).
It’s a stunningly unexpected move that biden has even done this much towards israel, and it seems like a pretty clear overture.
oh and yeah, what do you want him to do here? US boots on the ground in the middle of yet another proxy war is the most direct solution though I understand why he’s hesitant to play that card against an actively genocidal religious dictatorship that has nuclear weapons
I hate that I’m defending biden but come on man you know it’s more complicated than your take implies.
If there wasn’t an extremely consequential election next year that MIGHT conceivably happen, if Biden decided he wasn’t running for reelection that would be more in the cards. But there’s no way he does something that volatile, shit I don’t know if any candidate would, even if it is the correct move and/or the right thing to do it’s political dynamite. Not weighing in one way or the other, that’s a huge decision that would have huge ripple effects. It could straight start WW3(if we aren’t already in it), hand Trump the election, kick off a Civil War 2 BEFORE the election. I’m all for stopping the genocide Israel is committing, and even taking extreme measure, but I cannot see that happening during this admin in this moment.
But I was… describing things he’s doing… what? He’s actively doing politically unpopular things right now. Like, as I type this he is doing them, in response to this fucking stupid war.
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But it was Hamas that blew up the hospital. You know, the literal terrorist organization known for attacking its citizens?
Hamas doesn’t have that type of ammunition if it had this war would be different
We don’t know who it was. 500 people are confirmed dead in this incident and countless others are missing, and the best thing you can think to do is come in here and vehemently assign blame?
There are no 500 confirmed people. It’s just a number Hamas thrown out there and everyone is deepthroating it. Parking lot that got burned is not big enough for 500 people to pile on.
To be clear, I’m responding to people who have already assigned blame to Israel for this. If you’re opposed to jumping to conclusions, you should be calling out those top-level comments. Go on.
The 500 number, to my knowledge, is an exaggeration and the source was a Hamas spokesperson. Do you have a source for that number?
You really just have one single play in your playbook, don’t you? Please, for fucks sake, just stop. You’re embarrassing yourself.
From the article:
The Hamas-run Health Ministry in the Gaza Strip says at least 500 people have been killed in an explosion that it says was caused by an Israeli airstrike
You’re using Hamas as a source. That’s pretty embarrassing.
It’s not hamas run, that just iserali media manager told them to say, it’s literally a Christian hospital
but this is a straight up crime.
So was cutting off water and power to the whole area, so was using white phosphorus in populated areas, so was killing unarmed people in their own towns, so was…
So was invading Israel, raping and killing its parents, brutalizing it’s children, and uploading it all to Facebook. Oh and the hostages.
Of course the person shilling for the IDF doesnt seem to understand that Palestinians =/= Hamas nor that the wholesale slaughter of innocents is in no way a justifiable response
Oh they understand that perfectly well, the trouble is that they choose not to make that distinction because otherwise the basis for their entire anti-Palestinian worldview collapses
IDK, I’m pretty sure HotDaniel’s worldview would hold firm even in the face of the ontological equivalent of nuclear weapons. At this point I’m kinda just bouncing abstract concepts off them as a way to illustrate the inherent flaws in their worldview to anyone that might be reading it (though lets be real, I’m mostly just a drunk analyst that’s sick of the IDF killing my friends and is taking out my sorta-kinda-impotent rage on someone who couldn’t debate their way out of a damp paper sack given both hands, a map, a fire axe and clearcut verbal instruction on how to debate one’s way out of a damp paper sack using a fire axe, map and both hands)
Quote where I said I am anti-Palestinian. I am anti-Hamas. Always have been and always will be. You have to manufacture statements about me to attack me. You’re defending literal terrorists who would kill you without hesitation.
You’re arguing in bad faith here so I’m going to move on from this discussion. Wishing you the best.
You literally made up that I’m anti-Palestinian. You’re as bad-faith as they come. So, bye.
I have been and always will be anti-Hamas. And never have I said that Palestinians == Hamas. You have to misquote me to attack me. You’re defending literal terrorists that would kill you without hesitation, who raped parents and brutalized children. Israel has shown great restraint towards the Palestinian people. Does Gaza still exist? Have they leveled it, like any other nation would have after having hundreds of rockets per day shot at them? Of course, Israel is trying to minimize civilian casualties, and for that you will attack them.
I can’t be arsed to dig through your comments and find a specific example so I’ll just go with the equally valid rebuttal: You have implied it, however! The assertion that israel is defending itself against “existential threats” (and clarifying that threat is Hamas) while at the same time arguing that israel is totally justified logically implies that the thousands of civilians being wiped out by israel are equally culpable for Hamas’ crimes, and are a threat to israel.
If the inhabitants of the Warsaw ghetto escaped and murdered German citizens living around the ghetto, would you be pointing out this crime or would you think it more relevant to discuss the crimes of the Nazis in power, still going on? Israel has been doing this for decades. Even just the night after the attack by Hamas, Israeli airstrikes killed over 300 children.
Yes, it would be more relevant to discuss the context of the Nazi oppression. In the case of Israel, they clearly are defending themselves from an existential threat from Hamas. And they have shown great restraint in what they’ve done. You don’t have to like it, but any other nation would have leveled Gaza by now, but Israel has not done that. They’ve stated the target of their war very clearly. They are there to dedtroy Hamas. Undoubtedly, innocents will die. That happens in any war. The quickest path to peace for both sides, is for Hamas to be destroyed. If their is cancer in your body, you kill good cells in order to kill the cancer. It’s sad, but necessary.
Doubt it. There is a lot of Israeli money influencing US politics.
That is just one link but when searching there are others.
Nobody wants to be branded as antisemitic and tried in the court of the media. It would be a political stain on their career.
The tragedy is that for many years jews and muslims lived in peace in that region before the formation of the state of Israel, before zionism took hold.
Its heartbreaking to watch. All of the innocent people caught up in this.
I’m so confused who did this, every media outlet in UK is saying it’s Hamas but Lemmy says it’s isreal. How do I ensure I don’t get fed false information, because at least one of my favourite sources is wrong/lying. And that’s heartbreaking
It’s not necessarily lying.
Social media tends to jump on details as fast as they come out, which is not great given the so called “fog of war.”
Remember when Reddit ‘found’ the Boston marathon bomber?
No one is going to sue some random internet commenter for libel, and the random person doesn’t have an institutional reputation at stake if they back a story that turns out to be false later on.
In theory, large media orgs do have to worry about those things, though standards have slipped a lot recently.
So even without intentionally lying, social media isn’t the most reliable place for information. There are exceptions (the lab leak theory was widely embraced online when mainstream press was presenting it as an open and shut case initially, for example). But the odds are generally not in social media’s favor about any early information on a topic, whether things like school shootings (very often there’s reports of multiple gunmen when there’s actually just one) or world events.
Also, technically I don’t think anyone is saying it’s Hamas. It’s being attributed to a different group.
That’s a great comment and mostly true, in general I should apply less weighting to sources of information I find on social media and that includes Lemmy. Although I know the media like to lie they wouldn’t intentionally feed false information at a scandalous level such as this.
I appreciate the answer friend
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was true, but it’s pertinent to wait for more information rather than the word of a Hamas spokesperson.
I don’t know why a comment waiting for more info is downvoted.
Why we’re just hooligans who only belong to one of two teams instead of being able to worry about the innocents on both sides that suffer the blood thirst of the scum above them in the hierarchy.
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I had to leave the lemmy.ml community because my comment calling out a tankie spewing this kind of shit got removed. They want to build their echo chamber, i say let 'em. At least here, the reasonable voices get through.
It’s wild over there. A bunch of my comments got deleted and I received an instance wide ban. Meanwhile posts from hexbears full of misinformation or calls for violence get up voted to the top
Because it’s not the hamas spokesmen as hamas only has one official spokesman and it for just announcing military operations.
Heres a link from the bbc,i dont think they are members of hamas
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233From the article:
Israel’s military says ‘a hospital is not an IDF target’
The BBC’s international editor Jeremy Bowen says he has received a statement in a phone call from the spokesperson’s office of the Israel Defence Forces, reacting to what Palestinian officials have said was an Israeli strike on the Al Ahli Hospital in Gaza.
The statement says “a hospital is a highly sensitive building and is not an IDF target.”
“The IDF is investigating the source of the explosion and as always is prioritising accuracy and reliability.”
“We urge everyone to proceed with caution when reporting unverified claims of a terrorist organisation.”
So there’s some fuckery going on. Either Israel did it by accident, or on purpose and covering up, or something else.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-says-islamic-jihad-rocket-misfire-caused-gaza-hospital-blast/
Rockets occasionally misfire and don’t make it to their destination. Israel is claiming that’s what happened - that a Hamas rocket fell well short of its intended target.
How TF do you read that and end up at the conclusion, Israel is up to no good! You realize you’re defending a literal terrorist organization known for bombing its citizens? Who stands to gain from bombing a hospital? Israel gains… universal condemnation. Hamas gains… the entire Arab community uniting and calling for death to Israel.
Who stands to gain from bombing a hospital?
That’s why I’m saying there’s some fuckery going on. I’m not putting it past Israel to bomb a hospital at this point, but it seems like a very stupid unjustifiable move. That ‘something else’ I mentioned could be Hamas bombing the hospital and then blaming Israel.
Thanks for not jumping to conclusions. It just seemed to me that your original post was finger pointing at Israel as being responsible for the fuckery, instead of being clear that they don’t have much to gain from this attack and the opposition is a literal terrorist organization known for attacking its citizens and blaming Israel.
God forbid anyone point fingers, I’m glad you’re of such staunch moral fiber as to be above that kind of thing!
Feel free to wait for the facts to emerge before commenting.
Which is why if it was them and an accident (or deliberate) it would be covered up. Things happen in war and the narrative that results from actions is as important as supply chains.
Video of gaza-launched rocket misfiring and landing on hospital.
Is the hospital the giant expanse of black or the slightly larger giant expanse of black? You’re touting this like it proves anything when its a screencap from a news show that has composite effects on the screen. We dont know what happened and this video isn’t proof one way or another.
Hamas are utter bastards, what isreal is doing is also inexcusably horrendous. Both are true statements. The only side that doesnt suck in this ‘war’ is the side of slaughtered innocents, which sure seems to be easily forgotten in a rush to be smugly superior over which side committed the heinous atrocity we get to care about today!
The hospital is the big building that blows up when the rocket hits it. I’m glad that you’re hesitant to jump to conclusions. You should be calling out the top-level comments stating or implying that Israel is responsible. You should be calling out the main article of this thread for stating that it was an Israeli strike. Since you’re so in favor of not mis-stating facts.
What Israel is doing, fundamentally, is self-defense and there aren’t clear boundaries about where that crosses the line. I won’t endlessly support Israel no matter what, but right now it is very clear that they wouldn’t be doing any of this if there wasn’t an existential threat due to a terrorist organization that demands their complete destruction. If there is cancer in the body, you kill good cells trying to destroy the cancer. But you must destroy the cancer, or be destroyed yourself. I’m sorry that innocents have to die, but when Hamas is destroyed, then the Palestinians can actually have peace, if they want it.
Umm, maybe you missed the memo. Everyone killed in gaza has been a hamas militant, and everyone upset about genocide and war crimes is a hamas propagandist.
Those reuters reporters the IDF blew up? Obviously hamas… it’s pretty straightforward.
That’s the best part about this community. You don’t have to wait! Just blame Israel and call for their death!
Jihads misfire, blow up a Gaza hospital, blame it on Israel and people believe it.
On top of it, the hospital wasn’t even blown up.
A three foot wide crater out front, yeah. Definitely looks like the detonation of either a very small bomb or something that didn’t explode as intended. Definitely not a fucking JDAM crater, that’s for sure.
Wait, you don’t believe what islamic fundamentalist terrorist organization says right after killing 1000 Israeli civilians?
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I’m actually so confused as to what actually happened. I literally don’t get the narrative because either story is believable
Hamas terrorists brutally murdered at least 5 Canadians and are currently holding/torturing several more as hostages in Gaza. Is that also BS?
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- Israel DID NOT blow up that hospital. The terrorists misfired.
- I want ALL Hamas dead for mass murdering Canadians.
Canadians promoting the slaughter of natives? thats a first /s
So you are saying that everyone in Gaza is Hamas?
No but being part of Hamas does not erase ones Palestinian identity. Hamas is still made of natives trying to defend themselves from colonizers. Nice try tho.
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Know what’s “dubious?” Taking the word of a terrorist group that slaughtered Canadian civilians.
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You straight up defending “Human Shield” Hamas after they blew up their own hospital and blamed it on the IDF isn’t the moral high ground you deserepately need.
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Says the person who calls BS on the almost certain fact that Hamas/IJ was trying to blame blowing up the hospital on IDF without any arguments.
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Source for your bullshit propaganda?
Biden said that he believes the US intelligence that points to it being an errant rocket coming from the Palestinian side of the fence.
That said, at this point, is anyone going to believe what anyone says?
Just like the US intelligence that told Bush there were WMDs in Iraq?
Call me crazy but I’m inclined to believe US intelligence over the health minister of Hamas. Yet I will wait for the UN report that will be conducted to know for certain.
The difference is Bush was a lying republican war monger
Thank god Biden is only a lying democrat war monger
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Are you seriously trying to equate bush who pushed thru the Iraq war without approval
Since you clearly know FUCK ALL about US history:
The Constitution vests the power of declaring war in Congress; therefore no offensive expedition of importance can be undertaken until after they shall have deliberated upon the subject, and authorized such a measure.
So said President George Washington in 1793. President George W. Bush thinks he knows better. He does promise to “consult” with Congress before launching a massive invasion of Iraq. And he does not rule out seeking a vote of approval. But as a matter of law, his administration claims, Bush is free to initiate a major war all by himself.
Now, go ahead, tell me again that Biden is the same breed of war monger. The man who lost a son in the line of duty
US and Israel have basically been in lockstep for decades (despite the whole supposed Obama/Netanyahu row), this isn’t really worth anything.
And it’s not like Hamas or Hezbollah have a trustworthy reputation.
Nobody does. Even someone with the best reputation could be lying, too. People need to stop taking governments on faith like that, it’s absolutely moronic. If they didn’t present evidence that you took the time to evaluate for yourself whether or not it was proof, you just don’t know at all.
US and Israel have basically been in lockstep for decades (despite the whole supposed Obama/Netanyahu row), this isn’t really worth anything.
Absolutely NOT true. The US pressured Israel into allowing aid to flow into gaza, turn on other necessities, etc. They have condemned the Hamas terrorist attack that brutally targeted civilians (akin to our 9/11) and thus the US ‘stood’ with Israel in that regard, understanding exactly what that feels like.
Israel’s war cabinet on Wednesday approved the entry of humanitarian aid into Gaza from Egypt after pressure from the U.S. and other countries.
https://www.axios.com/2023/10/18/gaza-humanitarian-aid-entry-israel-netanyahu-biden
The story doesn’t end there:
President Biden warned Israel in an interview aired on Sunday not to reoccupy Gaza, his first significant public effort to restrain America’s ally in the wake of the Hamas assault that killed more than 1,300 people, including at least 29 Americans.
Mr. Biden has offered staunch support for Israel since the Oct. 7 attack and refused to criticize Israel for its retaliatory siege of Gaza, the coastal enclave controlled by Hamas, even as U.N. officials have warned of a humanitarian crisis there. But in the new interview, he cautioned against a full-scale occupation of Gaza.
“I think it’d be a big mistake,” Mr. Biden told “60 Minutes” on CBS in a conversation taped on Thursday and aired on Sunday night. “Look, what happened in Gaza, in my view, is Hamas and the extreme elements of Hamas don’t represent all the Palestinian people. And I think that it would be a mistake for Israel to occupy Gaza again.” But “taking out the extremists” there, he added, “is a necessary requirement.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/us/politics/biden-israel-gaza.html
The U.S. will send $100 million in aid for humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza and the West Bank, President Joe Biden said on Wednesday. “This money will support more than 1 million displaced in conflict affected Palestinians, including emergency needs in Gaza,” Biden said Wednesday during a speech in Tel Aviv.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/18/biden-humanitarian-aid-gaza-west-bank-00122212
but go ahead, just claim us = Israel, you clearly don’t give a fuck about reality so why not?
Joined two days ago to exclusively advocate for Hamas terrorists. Looks suspicious.
No advocation for Hamas from my side.
I simply chose to join the Fediverse (Lemmy in particular as I really liked Reddit) to have freedom of speech.
Over to you, Hamas doesn’t exist in the west bank, so why are people there getting killed?
This event happened in the Gaza Strip. And Hamas’ exists in the West Bank, they just don’t rule there.
Lol, you don’t think Hamas rules Gaza?
Hamas (UK: /həˈmæs/, US: /həˈmɑːs/ ⓘ;[43] Arabic: حماس Ḥamās [ħaˈmaːs]),[44] officially the Islamic Resistance Movement (حركة المقاومة الإسلامية Ḥarakah al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah), is a Sunni Islamist[45] political and military organization governing the Gaza Strip of the Palestinian territories.
Anyways, Hamas didn’t launch the rockets that hit the hospital - Palestinian Islamic Jihad did.
You read that backwards. There is Hamas in the West Bank but the PLA is in charge there. There is also Hamas on the Gaza Strip and they are the defacto government there.
The person above was complaining about deaths in the West Bank, but the article in question is about an event that happened in the Gaza Strip.
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No answer for my question yet.
I’m not in the conversation. Just saying that this is not a public square and “free speech” (often synonymous to hate speech) might not be tolerated here.
Ironically, the comment you replied to got deleted, so…
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They have no shame on deflecting the blame
It must be a very precise and fortunate failure for Israel that an enemy rocket failed and landed exactly on a hospital and killed hundreds of Palestinians they deem unworthy of humanity.
The western world has blood on its hand by supporting such a criminal state
They’ve literally launched like 10,000 rockets.
Artisanal water pipe rockets that can’t kill more than 10 people or bring down one apartment floor, can’t be the same misfired rocket that killed 500 people all at once. they just don’t have the capability for that much damage.
killed 500 people all at once
And destroyed 80% of a hospital… or did it?
All the proof shows a parking lot with fewer than 10 cars on fire, surrounded by a hospital that’s still standing and usable, and maybe a dozen dead (there might be more, there is no proof of them yet).
Have you seen the picture of the aftermath? It t literally burned 10 cars in a parking lot. It certainly doesn’t look like something that could kill 500 people, especially since it didn’t even touch the building. Really looks like a small misfired rocket to me.
https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/article-768942
I look forward to your retraction and condemnation of those firing rockets
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When we point to your crimes against humanity, you tell us to look elsewhere. you must have iron guts to stomach what Israel committed today and keep a straight face
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An Israeli gov Spokesperson admitted in a tweet that it was meant to target Hamas but landed on the the hospital. he then deleted the tweet. a few screenshots are circulating still. but doesn’t constitute full proof yet
Looking forward to all those apologies from the triggered antisemitic egg faced cunts but I’m not holding my breath
Even without knowing who did it, if Israel had stopped occupying Palestinian land, killing and displacing civilians as it’s been doing for decades, we probably wouldn’t be here today, or at least, maybe I could feel sorry for them. I’m not justifying Hamas’ recent attack on civilians, it was horrible, but Israel had it coming.
“those civilians had it coming” is the definition of “justifying” Hamas.
There are no civilians in Israel except those who haven’t reached the age where they have to join the IDF.
Christ this is grim. Forced conscription means anyone is fair game? Not having a decision is basically the same thing as having one, so morals have no say in this discussion.
You sound like a fucking cartoon villain, think about that.
I didn’t say civilians, mind you, I said “Israel”, but let’s talk about the civilians: they voted for this government over and over for decades (minus the brief pause last year), and similar ones before, so at least the majority of them bears some responsibility as well. I’m only sorry for that minority of Israeli that wanted peace and voted for someone else.
So all Palestinians who want a pure Muslim country and support the different extremist groups in Palestine have it coming as well?
Actually you, again, literally said the thing… you referred to the civilians. They are the victims from the Israeli perspective. But tell me, what did I miss?
So all Americans should have their kids raped and murdered in front of them bc Trump or the decades of conservatives before him elected by half the population at best?
Minority in Israel? You ever talk to Israelis? Nobody under middle age votes this way and most of the older people I know are the same.
You’re an ignorant fuck.
Btw did you see who actually blew up the hospital? Apologize cunt.
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No, history began with the British exit, and also omits a dozen wars of aggression against Israelis and Hamas’ charter that states their mission is the eradication of all Jews everywhere… Oh, right, Arafat was a peacemaker of course too.
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I mean, they both had their fair chances of accepting a peace deal, but for some reason that didn’t work out. Anyways, there’s ony one of the two countries currently occupying territories of the other, and that’s where my bias come from, but yeah, they’re both murderers.
not really, unless you mean the Camp David talks that demanded the Palestinians have less autonomy than Poland under the USSR
FINALLY ! someone with common sense. Thank you
Who is funding that government exactly? Certainly not the USA and “the west”, who prefer to fund Israel instead: a country doing exactly the same, but on a larger scale, and calling different, more socially acceptable names (e.g. “casualties” vs killings). Two wrongs don’t make a right.
The biggest financial backer of the Palestinian Authority is “the west.” Unless you don’t consider Europe part of the west. The United States is also a substantial financial backer of the Palestinians, though not as much as Europe. About 64% of pledged international funds come from “the west” with only 20% coming from Arab sources.
Not arguing that the US doesn’t give far more money to Israel which is of course true, but I think with these complex situations it’s important to be precise about facts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians
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What I see is, two terrorists doing terror attacks on each others. Some countries fund one terrorist, others fund the other terrorist. One just happen to have a lot more funding. If only they would make a peace deal … ah yeah, they tried that, didn’t work …
Link to the original article:
Seems like this was actually Hamas’s own rocket strike.
https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1714390274900734049
That means the reported death toll is going to be much lower also, because they cannot blame Israel for it.
Ohh wow a source that is in no way authoritative! I sure hope you went and posted this everywhere!
GeoConfirmed is well-respected and they work closely with Bellingcat who are probably the OSINT gold standard, having exposed Russia downing flight MH17, the Russian operatives following Alexei Nevalny before his attempted assassination, and numerous Russian illegals operations, among many other investigations.
If multiple investigators independently concluded that the rocket was fired from Gaza and lost control before hitting the hospital, the likelihood that you’ll find credible investigators coming to a different conclusion is very small.
Israel hit this same hospital with rockets on Saturday, injuring four staff members, according to the hospital, prompting the Most Rev. Justin Welby, the archbishop of Canterbury, to call for the reversal of Israel’s order for Palestinians to evacuate from the north of Gaza ahead of a planned ground offensive" https://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/news/news-and-statements/gaza-hospitals-are-facing-catastrophe-says-archbishop-canterbury
The barrage of rockets were live streamed with timestamps. One does appear to veer off compared to the others that lines up with the time of the explosion.
However, the Israeli military did say there was a drone operation in the area but denied any of them were involved.
Israeli strikes hit every minute, more so at night, the fact that some rockets were launched soon before isn’t in any way definitive.
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Im going crazy at people’s reaction to a hospital being bombed during the largest aerial bombardment from Israel (A country known for bombing hospitals) into Gaza, this hospital was supposedly just meant to have exploded thanks to a weapon dozens of times more powerful than anything Hamas has ever had in its arsenal.
I’m actually losing my fucking mind at these comments
I genuinely don’t understand what you’re suggesting happened. There’s an incredible amount of ambiguity from the average commenter to where I can’t tell if they believe it’s an isreali strike or a failed Hamas rocket
As he said he is losing his mind. Because it clashes with reality and he cannot accept anything that goes against his firm convictions.
It’s so interesting to me that even your comment is ambiguous, it’s like everyone on lemmy has evolved to not make themselves clear to what their opinion is
Oh I did not mean that to be ambigious. To make it clear: I think the user is a dumbass who gets upset because people don’t believe that Israel attacked the hospital but that it was caused by the “defenders”. Which is something he cannot accept because in his mind Israel must be at fault.
I spent most of today trying to get to the bottom of this. I don’t have the answer.
On some level I’m just like, what frigging difference does it even make, it’s all caused by this idiotic conflict. Give the Palestinians some of the land back, arrange a change in power on both sides, release the hostages, get this god damn thing over with already. Fuck Hamas, fuck genocidal Netanyahu, you leave it up to them and these people will be killing each other forever.
Where is the vision to bring this apartheid/conflict/whatever to an end FOREVER?
what frigging difference does it even make, it’s all caused by this idiotic conflict.
it makes a big difference because if (FUCKING IF) this was a missile strike from Israel (very much not looking like the case), this gives the rest of us a more powerful lever to apply pressure on Israel. Biden has already forced them to allow aid to Gaza, but we can do more. NetanYAHOO is a fucking war criminal but he ain’t Putin (yet), I don’t see him thumbing his nose to the Hague and continue to cheer on more war crimes.
That’s why this is so important, if this truly was a missile strike on a hospital, it is direct escalation that 100% indefensible, and will also give more legitimacy to progressive Jews everywhere that are condemning this war.
I think what is left out these days is nuance and a judgement of individual actions. Hamas is a horror show, hands down. Israel has a horrific expansionist agenda. It’s not clean and neat. We don’t need to cheer a side on all occasions. Let’s condemn atrocities and organisations with atrocious actions actions (Hamas and Israel) and push for fair and equitable outcomes for the innocent citizens on both sides.
If Israel is known to bomb hospitals, why did Hamas put their headquarters in the biggest hospital in Gaza? Isn’t that kind of counterproductive?
Yea, first they had their propagandists celebrate it, then they said it was shot down by iron dome, then they said it was a malfunction. They said it came from a cemetery next to the hospital, then changed to say it came from south Gaza. The only difference between this incident and the thousands of other strikes is that it garnered more sympathy in the west.
Holy fuck, dudes.
Getting tired of the pro-Hamas lemmy position.
If you actually watch the footage of this attack you can see pretty clearly it’s a failed Hamas rocket.
Definitely not pro-Hamas here. There is video of a rocket that veers off that does seem to match up with the timing. The Israeli military has also said there were drone operations in the area but denied they were involved.
It does appear like this was likely Islamist militants but there is still a possibility that it was Israel. We will need more info to get a better picture of the situation.
You’re probably right I was just being reactive.
Time for a break.
No worries. I added an update blurb but Boost is not letting me update the headline with the new info.
Calling out Israel for its blatant disregard for human life isn’t a “pro-Hamas” stance.
The only thing I’ll agree on about this conflict is that it brings out the worst in people
Not wanting to see a heavily populated civilian area carpet bombed to supposedly target a faction that makes up 1% of the population doesn’t make you pro-terrorism; quite the opposite.
Very few on here is pro hamas. The rest of us are just trying to show you how genocidal Israel has been to Gaza and Palestinians. Yet you seem to be drinking the the right wing kool-aid that Israel is a saint.
Go to 9gag where your racist & bigotry will fit right in.
Like I said… this conflict brings out the worst in people.
Were the rockets that hit the hospital on Saturday also failed Hamas rockets? I’m just asking, feel free to say yes. https://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/news/news-and-statements/gaza-hospitals-are-facing-catastrophe-says-archbishop-canterbury
I think most people aren’t going to be moved or convinced by that source. I would recommend finding something a bit more substantial.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/17/israel-hamas-gaza-hospital-anglican-church/
“The al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza City was also struck on Saturday and had braced to be a key support in the war”
Much better source
There is currently only one verified video of the rocket strike. At best you can discern the direction the rocket came from, not who fired it. The magnitude of the explosion and the direction it came from makes it more likely to be an Israeli rocket, but that isn’t conclusive.
Everything else you’ve seen is fake/propaganda.
Where are all the people talking about how the Israeli government minimizes casualties with precision strikes?
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I’ve seen a thread where someone suggested building a canal through the whole region and a replying saying to glass the whole region. Granted, they wanted both sides wiped out, because somehow a group of people within each region committing violence justifies nuking the entire region?
Not exactly common sentiments either: out of 100s of comments, those are the only two I’ve seen along those lines. No clue where they were and I’d they may have been removed by mods, making them harder to find (but mod logs do exist), so unfortunately I can’t link to them.
Two hexbear posts is the best you could find? You do know that most of the popular lemmy instances have defederated from them, right?
They asked for proof and I provided it. The sentiment in this community is not far off.
This is fake news, no hospital was bombed instead it was parking lot…
Edit: I’m questioning the veracity of this myself, disregard.
Let’s not spread rumors without any proof. If you have proof, show it.
The IDF spokesman himself https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1714355342987948106
They literally have a dedicated team for social media engineering
If true, then this needs to go higher
Yeah agreed, since then I’m even questioning if it’s legitimate.
Unclear if the headline is editorialized or simply changed after posting, still it’s mismatched. Locked and removed.
