Its not about converting the crackpots, its about pushing back on insane bullshit so others are less likely to become crackpots.
This is why dissent is important. Visibility.
You’re never going to change their minds. That’s not the point. The point is to push back against them. So people who see the interaction will see the rebuttal and the pushback against the insanity. That’s the important part.
I’m not writing to the crackpot I’m responding to. I’m writing to the lurkers on the fence wondering if he has a valid point.
That might be why I’m so used to replies that look like long-form essays. It takes a lot more words to explain nuance and invite critical thought than it does to shitpost.
I’ve had cases where I’ve moved the needle. Got someone to move from “I hate communism!!” to “I see where you’re coming from. Capitalism has problems, I admit”.
For some people, you need to let them feel heard and avoid being too antagonistic.
Some people are just trolls, though.
I managed to convert a “god put dinosaur fossils in the ground 6000 years ago to test us,” person once, although she was already questioning things so I led her to the right answer.
You don’t change the view of the person you are arguing with on the internet, you are putting a red flag so that would-be readers don’t fall into the rabbit hole.
Online debate is fun. I don’t care if it falls short of solving the worlds problems.
Online debate isn’t fun. I care if it falls short of solving the world’s problems.
Online debate is fun
Most online disagreements can hardly be characterized as a “debate”. Most of the time it’s some contrarian shitlord arguing in bad faith, fishing for gotchas, moving goalposts, refusing to acknowledge reality, and/or pretending your posts mean something other than what they say.
I’ve found that, while you can’t convince a crackpot of anything, you can study them like a scientific specimen and it can be quite interesting
Well, the alternative is a bunch of crackpot comments with no pushback (except downvotes) and 3-10x less actually-decent-takes
Everyone just wants an echo chamber and the internet is happy to oblige
You’re so right.
"Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.
- Jonathan Swift, A Letter to a Young Gentleman, Lately Enter’d Into Holy Orders, 1721 C.E.
The number of threads that I’ve just completely abandoned on .ml when I realize I’m trying to reason with morons is too damn high.
Going to .ml looking for an enlightened discussion is like going to the zoo looking for a glory hole.
I blocked ml just this morning after such an exchange. It’s noticeable immediately 😂
My rule to live by (and this seems to trigger people online for some reason whenever I say it): never engage with comments online. I’ll post a comment, but >99% of the time there is no reason to reply. Someone has to make it abundantly clear that they are responding in good faith to warrant a response. My life has been much better since I started doing this and I would strongly recommend everyone try it out.
Almost 100% of the replies you receive are in bad faith? Friend…
I enjoy the banter back and forth until the person doubles down, then it’s over
Having a real discussion online seems exceedingly rare. Like where each person really wants to find the flaws in their own position, to either strengthen it or learn why it can’t be.
It’s rare but it’s there, and when you genuinely find someone who will take your points and offer their perspective in return it can be a glorious thing.
That reminds me, I really must check my inbox
In the dark times of late 2023 I had long discussions with Israel apologists on here, now they don’t seem to exist anymore. Question is, if they actually changed their mind or if they just left, and if my comments had anything to do with that anyway ofc.
They probably got called up
