Didn’t know where to post this but man, I so get it.
Alright, I’m getting shitloads of reports all over these comments, mostly people whining to mommy when people disagree with them hoping I’ll ban whoever it is they don’t like.
It seems like all the old talking points have been said and everyone’s positions are as entrenched as they’re going to get. I’m locking this; give it a rest, you lot.
Americans are being killed in the street right now fighting back
Not sure what point is being made here
This is propaganda to further divide
Every single time someone online claims to be this or that identity from this or that country, they are doing it as a black man. You cannot trust claims online accounts make about their identity.
I don’t need to trust OOP. In USians own words that they were repeating ad nauseam on Reddit for the past four years, Russians are all responsible for Putin’s actions because they didn’t overthrow him. Tell me why the same shouldn’t apply to USians.
They said that Russians should’ve protested, and that would cure Putin’s dictatorship. Which Russians did, culminating with Bolotnaya in 2011, after which the downturn to authoritarianism only accelerated; and particularly in east and north regions practically every year, with six months of protests sometimes.
They also said that Russians should’ve overthrown Putin with other means, i.e. unarmed clerks should’ve gone against the police, Rosgvardiya, FSB and the military.
Well let’s see then how this protesting thing and overthrowing thing works out for USians, and if it doesn’t then we will speak the same of them as they did about Russians. Trump is still on the throne after one year, yall seem to be slacking.
Maybe you’ll feel better if you overthrow Putin.
Yeah, why don’t I also overthrow Trump while I’m at it, since USians seemingly can’t do shit about him despite talking a lot of talk. And then overthrow Vučić and Orbán because I’m responsible for all of them, and never people of those countries themselves.
Maybe we’ll feel better if you overthrow Trump.
Yeah no. Talk is cheap. USians can depose Trump and show the example for all the world, or they can shut up about how they personally didn’t enable Trump’s regime.
scans thread
It’s working!
😒
They are calling out americans to do something about their fascist government, who they are trying to divide?
This divides US individuals from their allies elsewhere. The nation has failed to represent its people. Either help us sabotage the fascist machinery now or prepare yourself for when the regime reaches your doorstep. The villains here don’t respect borders except when they divide and control the rest of us. Don’t help them do that.
How does this divides US individuals from their allies?
This post essentially says “Don’t tell us if you disagree with the fascists, we don’t care”. I don’t see how any good will come from burying your head in the sand and ignoring potential allies and reinforcing in-group/out-group divisions. That actually supports their evil divide-and-conquer strategy!
The only groups that should matter here are the wealth-hoarding fascists vs everyone else in the world. They don’t care what country we’re from our what languages we speak or what recipes we got from our grandmothers; they ultimately want to enslave or murder us all.
Part of it, I think, is that a random person apologizing on behalf of an entire country is rather pointless. It doesn’t benefit that other country at all (in a personal sense a genuine apology might provide reassurance that the apologizer doesn’t intend to repeat some offense, but a person apologizing for an entire country, that they don’t control, can make no such garuntee, same as apologizing on behalf of an unrepentant stranger would be pointless). The only thing it really does is make the person apologizing feel slightly better about what is going on.
rather pointless
If little actions like that didn’t happen, the international stage would see us as a monolith all supporting Trump. Your only source of truth would be our media.
That would be horrible.
I get that sentiment, but consider: there are orders of magnitude more people in the US than Greenland. As such, if Americans go into communities for Greenland to demonstrate to them that we don’t all support Trump in such a way, the result would be less a “little thing” and more the people actually using that community getting bombarded with Americans apologizing for the actions of other Americans in a space meant to be for Greenland. I’m not from there and so can’t say for sure how that comes across, but I at least imagine that were I from Greenland, I’d probably find this far more annoying than reassuring.
Isnt that exactly what the post is addressing? It’s something us-americans do for themselves, for their image in front of the world. It is not done for the greenlanders and therefore leaves a bitter taste.
Many of us have empathy, and feel terrible that the rest of the world has to deal with the bullshit that a third of our country and half our political system has voted for. Your comment seems to be blind to that fact.
and feel terrible that the rest of the world has to deal with the bullshit that a third of our country and half our political system has voted for
And that energy needs to be directed at reducing and preventing the bullshit. Apologizing to Greenland does nothing for the bullshit they have to deal with.
All apologies only server to make the apologizer feel better. Should we just stop doing it altogether?
huh? that’s literally not the point of apologies? they’re explicitly about taking responsibility, acknowledging harm done, expressing genuine remorse and committing to real actionable change.
the issue in the OP is when people say “I’m sorry about the orange cheeto - I didn’t vote for this you don’t deserve to be treated this way” - this is useless and performative and serves to mostly make the person apologising feel better.
instead a real apology would take ownership and commit to action: “I’m sorry I didn’t do more, and here’s what I’ll do going forward (mobilise, organize, agitate, etc)”
and even then it might still not make a difference and people might still hate you but we don’t fight fascists to win or to feel better about ourselves but because they are fascists…
You actually think it makes them feel any better? Like they’re actually doing a narcissistic masturbation and patting themselves on the back for having done their part? THAT’S your projection of events? Jesus Christ lmao it’s a completely ordinary way of revealing to others there are citizens on their side too
You sound more irony poisoned and cynical than the fictional character you just made up
Not nearly enough of us are fighting back.
Not nearly enough of anyone is fighting back
Do you really think that any major media would show how much resistance to government is out there and working? “The resistance will not be televised”
it’s easy to demand someone else sacrifice their life and liberty and livelihood for you.
that’s the point.
Americans are being killed in the street right now fighting back
More often than not, they’re being killed on the street (or in their homes or bleeding out in hospital wards or in detention cells) without ever lifting a finger. This isn’t Sparta. We’re not a bunch of paramilitary guerrillas with years of experience resisting an armed occupation. The bulk of American resistance is rhetorical - protest marches, sit ins, etc - because that’s what we’ve all been trained to believe is the most effective.
Not sure what point is being made here
That apologies fall flat when the bombs start landing. Greenland people need a real material international resistance to Trumpist Imperialism, not a Wisconsin Nice “gee golly this isn’t what we wanted” letter from the well-meaning people working at the F-35 jet engine factory.
Oh, sorry if that offended the americans heros who are protesting against what they voted for. Being Canadian, knowing that makes me realize everything is ok and I will stop mentionning your country is threatening to annex mine on a daily basis because some of you don’t want to too. Greenland and Venezuela should also stfu and let americans handle this like they always do, the best possible way.
Ope, can’t say “I didn’t vote for this” because that’s an annoying cliche too. I’m guessing you helped bury those Inuit kids under that schoolyard since you’re Canadian and you all think that same like all Americans do
JFK, yeah, excellent example: the whole point of the reconciliation process is recognizing that there is collective responsibility beyond individual actions.
I didn’t direct the genocide, but fucking rights I benefit as a settler, and repairing that involves both compensation and recognition of the existence of those benefits. It’s an ongoing struggle here as a lot of immature thinking still exists, crying about “it wasn’t me, stop blaming” while eating the fruits of colonialism every breathing moment.
Greenlanders don’t own land. They don’t have this individualism problem very much.
I’m all for reconciliation, and trying to make things better even if you didn’t participate in the colonialism. That is a good thing to do and something I try to do on my own life.
We’re not talking about that in this thread.
We’re talking about collective blame for the actions of others. If your government does something that’s amoral, and even if you’re trying to stop it, it does it anyway, are you copable?
Reconciliation says that even if you didn’t do the things, if you benefit from it, it’s your responsibility to try to fix it. That’s not what people are advocating for, they are gleefully saying people deserve to have a boot on their neck just because they happen to live in this country.
Yeah lol, about that, let’s ask my Attikamek mom about her time in a residency school.
Doesn’t matter if you’re under the boot or wearing it, you’re all the same so you all deserve it, right? You Canadians voted for it and allowed it to happen.
Oh wait that’s a shitty take? Maybe reconsider using it on others.
Get fucked, we both know you wont be doing shit and will keep hiding behind your computer when he makes is move on Greenland and Canada. As long as Amazon will keep delivering them crap made in China, americans will be all words and no act.
The point being made here is that having a textual emotional breakdown ‘apology video’ on a niche social media platform is completely fucking useless toward solving the problem, and that uselessness is so performative that it is actually insulting.
The Americans that are actually doing something about it?
Different topic.
Because they are actually doing something about it.
They’re not wasting their energy writing useless and meaningless apologies, making it ultimately about how ashamed they are to be an-
Nobody fucking cares about how sorry anyone one is when the harm is ongoing and worsening.
You bringing up Americans who actually are resisting, that is a non sequitur, it is completely missing the point.
Sincerely, An American who is sick of other American’s self-centered ‘main character’ bullshit.
One of the points being made is that if every russian is a piece of shit because putin was elected the same logic should apply to americans.
It’s that true, or was it just one? It’s not like there is some real resistance.
It’s sort of like Russia. There is some opposition, but nobody really wants to do anything real. Just that in Russia you get sent to the gulag, in America is just so much apathy and stupidity not many even understand what’s happening and had no idea what to do even if they did.
wow what an exaggaration. even though it’s a terrible situation, ONE person got killed by ONE ICE-prick. people arent ‘killed in the street fighting back’ most of you aren’t doing shit. Renee Good was ALONE
incorrect. more than one person has been murdered in the streets. many more killed while in ice custody. many people unsure of whereabouts.
Ah another keyboard warrior unfamiliar with all 50 state police forces and every other militarized federal agency in continuous operation
Yeah, we should all be going out and getting killed right now!
Correct
You’re correct, but in this first-past-the-post lemmy system, you’re going to be downvoted to oblivion, whilst the top votes go to exactly the kind of comment the actual post rails against!
luckily negative internet points matter as much as their stupid apologies
Think about how you view other countries. For example, Russian opposition doesn’t change what Russia does
We actually do make that distinction between the country and the people. Just like how people can support the Iranian protests but not the Iranian leadership. I agree with the general sentiment that the posts being addressed are stupid and pointless though.
We actually do make that distinction
Healthy people do, but too many do not.
Maybe places where the government reasonably represents more than a small sliver of society aren’t used to making that distinction? Not sure if how much that is the case in Denmark or perceived to be the case there. But anyone reasonably used to the government not implementing even basic policies supported by 75%+ people in the country because some lobbying group says “no” should be used to differentiating between the government and the people it rules over. Would be like blaming the people of India for all of the atrocities committed by the British Empire when they were a colony.
Depends on what you mean by ‘We’. Suggesting that Putin doesn’t fully reflect the Russian people gets pretty hostile responses based entirely on the logic of the original post.
All russians are orcs, all americans are seppos, etc.
“Americans should take responsibility!” But when an American takes responsibility and apologized even though that person probably voted for someone else and is doing what they can to fight back “well fuck you”.
So you want some hard pills to swallow?
If you are mad at Trump, whether you’re from the US or not, but bought things from Amazon, still using Twitter, still using Facebook, still buying from Nestle, still using Uber, still using Robin Hood, or any of the who knows what companies that have given Trump money, then you’re compliant. Especially if you did that before the election. You helped fund this.
You think Americans should rise up in the streets? Actually get up and do something instead of apologize online? Well you know that people can do both, right? Maybe ask people how they are getting involved instead of assuming they aren’t doing anything, and get, if they aren’t, that might get them off of their lazy asses.
You think we should overthrow the government? Ok, where’s your military? Seems like most of the world leaders are willing to take the knee and let that lunatic run rampant because they are scared of our overblown military that, frankly, most of us don’t even want, so why aren’t you fighting? If your fully trained, well equipped military can’t handle the US, how do you expect a bunch of civilians to be able to? Where’s your help if that’s so easy? Sure our country is larger than most and about a third of a continent, but if it should be easy for us then it should be cake for you!
Most of us didn’t vote for the guy, and he’s the least popular president in history, even lower than the second least popular president, which was Jim at his last term. “Oh but a third didn’t vote at all!” But you don’t know why they didn’t vote. Some might’ve been apathetic, but some might’ve been in our bullshit hospitals, and some might’ve been turned away at the polls, or maybe it’s because we’re working three jobs just to keep a roof over our head and enough shit food to keep from starving, who the fuck knows. Dude lost the popular vote both times but because we’ve got a fucked up voting system no one will change once they have won using it, he still won.
I’m not trying to be a dick here, and I know you all are frustrated because of this nut job. We are, too. The country has been taken over by oligarchs and now you care because he’s threatening to invade places with white people.
But you can’t tell people to have empathy and take responsibility then talk shit about them when they do. You can’t have it both ways.
You can’t say that it’s shitty for people to paint with broad strokes and say an entire group of people is the exact same and demonize them, then do the same for an entire population of a country.
You can’t say that it’s entirely on Americans when you’re still giving money to people backing him and aren’t fighting him either.
So maybe instead of bitching about people who feel bad about something they didn’t do apologizing, figure out what you might be doing that’s contributing and stop it.
Boycott the USA.
still buying from Nestle
Hey, that’s our shitty company! Should still be boycotted though.
Greetings from Switzerland.
They still donated millions to the current regime. That is exactly what they mean. Trump is a symptom of western neoliberal capitalism and we are ALL at fault. Where you spend your money matters and people have, in large part, actively ignored a lot of bullshit in the name of comfort. Nestle barely scratches the surface.
Also keeping in mind with the current state of the capitalist hellscape, avoiding companies that supported trump/GOP can be difficult to impossible for a good chunk of people. If the only grocery store that you’re able to get to is Walmart, I am not going to criticize you eating.
Virtually every automaker doung business in North America has kissed trump’s ass at some point in the last decade.
Nestle and Unilever are fucking everywhere and also have many subsidiaries that it can be difficult to figure out if they’re involved in the product you’re using.
Good luck using technology produced by a company that hasn’t supported him or the republican party.
With how badly things are ratfucked, I will applaud any effort to reduce consumption from these companies, because it’s at least a little better than actively supporting them.
In no way I was trying to undermine the point of the previous comment. It’s more of a twisted case of national pride. You can’t just claim the super evil corporation that is trying to take everyone’s water as yours! They are Switzerland’s seat at the super villain table.
Not to be salty, but I’m curious, do you have random people on the Internet assuming you’re in favor of child slavery and think that all Swedes think water shouldn’t be a human right?
Have you noticed that americans are so indoctrinated that when they have to choose a big evil company to rant about (up until recently) it’s usually Nestle, a non-US company.
While they had plenty ones at home that are far worse.
They don’t even realize how they get nudged and primed to direct their anger away from their own criminal multinationals.What a weird complaint. Do you have a better example for what they’re describing? I think Nestle is one of the best examples they could have used. They’re one of ten food megacorps and FAMOUSLY shitty.
Americans bring up nestle because they bring up the most local company they know of (brandingwise) that is doing shady shit nearby.
Nestle is involved in a major water extraction operation in california (largest pop US state) where some towns have been rationing water for years. Its one of the most cynical, evil things being done by a heavily branded corporation that USians can see.
I’m also still very tired of hearing people outside the USA telling us to start spilling each other’s blood willy nilly.
Fucking keyboard warriors telling us “just start a civil war, why haven’t you done it already” as if grabbing a gun and executing your neighbors is the easiest thing in the world.
I’d love to go my whole life without ever having to so much as slap someone. But the rest of lemmy seems convinced that “American == gun owner” and that we should have been cutting each other down in the streets since November 2024
Well it has been what Americans have been saying for decades. We need guns to protect us from the government.
I’m all for resisting ICE and standing up to them, but nuance is dead. People take that as me saying go shooting. I’m saying group together, don’t break the group, and don’t let THEM break it either.
That’s the actual solution, we outnumber them by such a huge margin that just standing together and telling them to fuck off is our best bet. They’re cowards, it doesn’t take a lot to make them back down.
I didn’t think you were suggesting violent solutions, I just also wanted to vent about the people who are like “wHy aREN’T AmERicAnS DoiNG MoRE?” and acting like because we haven’t gunned down Trump and most of Congress that we’re complicit
Oh nah, wasn’t saying you were telling me to be violent. Just dunking on those who outside the country want to see our bodies lying in the streets on the news. They say WE’RE violent but they aren’t ANY better.
as if grabbing a gun and executing your neighbors is the easiest thing in the world.
I just wanted to say this is not the way and is wrong.
It’s not people’s neighbours that need to be going after.
It about 600 people.
That’s it.
Then you do it again if the next group doesn’t make things right immediately.
You can give them a choice. Ask them to resign or face the guillotine.
That 600 people are the 3 branches of government and the Supreme Court.
435 members of Congress. 100 Senators. POTUS and his appointees.
Again it’s not people’s neighbours that need to be removed post haste.
And yes there are good people in that 600. That’s why you ask them to resign first. They can run again after the people have decided the smoke has cleared.
I know this isn’t going to happen nor is it as simple as 600 individuals. But those 600ish people are the problem. There are other and more problems but you fix those 600 and you can correct course
Sure and I’m sick of I’m sorry I never voted for him. I don’t care and there is no blue states either look at how many people in blue states voted for Trump. Just because he didn’t win your state doesn’t mean that a lot of people didn’t vote for him.
I’m increasingly realizing we never had any allies, we had sniveling yes countries that probably all need bloody mouths.
These comments from people saying that every single American is an evil monster because of their government are displaying the exact same hatred and ignorance that allows fascism to thrive. Which explains why far-right politicians have been gaining power all over the world. Watch your backs, people from other countries looking down their noses at the US - you’re next if you don’t do something about your problems at home, like you’re saying Americans should do. You haven’t been doing a very good job so far.
How is apologizing for something you didn’t do taking responsibility? It’s just irrational. Of course Greenlanders are tired of empty hypocrisy. They are scared af
It’s only hypocrisy if you assume the US is a monolith. Most us citizens don’t want a war and don’t want to do anything to Greenland and think this is insane. There’s some in favor of it because they own oil companies or are brainwashed psychopaths. Those are two very different groups of people and saying that the people who feel shitty about the actions of the psychos are hypocrites is rubbing salt into the wound when they are trying to express sympathy
Have you even read the post? It’s all just hypocrisy as long as agent orange is in the air
I’m fucking sick of watching Americans still use these services, buy these products. It’s fu king infuriating to the point where I’m saying shit to strangers outside. Stop supporting the boot on your neck!
Most Americans won’t give up the slightest bit of comfort, and I’m bout to start throwing hands.
For the down voters, wah wah ur poor Amazon, lazy fucks .
YOU ALL, Dems/libs/Reps created this and let this happen.
They are fascists or fascist-lite.
If you realize it or not.
Clearly not from you distancing yourself from the other side of your uniparty and absolving yourself of all guilt.
Here’s a nice Dante quote for you.
You act no different than that snake Bernie singling out ‘the netanyahoo government’ as the cause of everything in Palestine, as if that whole shit country wasn’t evil since the very beginning. It once again become a fair and great democracy just like before, please don’t blame poor Israel!
Exactly like the US situation.
So what if you voted for Copmala and Genocide Joe? Do you want a medal for that and think you’re better than the evil Trumpers?
Not to the rest of the planet.
Bombs hit just as hard on brown people under the slick drone king or whatever face was in charge while you still believed you were the greatest thing on the planet and couldn’t be bothered.
An you’re still butthurt and shamelesly blaming the few people with a conscience for not wanting to vote for a genocide enabling ghoul.
But because of that I have to suffer now!!! Poor me!!!Truth is the vast majority of your cancer country, Dems/libs/Reps alike were always America first, fuck the rest.
Now the chickens come home to roost.
Nobody needs to apologize and nobody needs to count on sympathy.
You can all go to hellBro you sound unhinged
Because they are a Russian troll farmer. Had him tagged for months and he shows up in every hate westerners thread. Ever bring up Russia and they get real defensive about how much better Putin is than any other leader.
Because he is unhinged. I’m not on Lemmy a lot, less than an hour per day on average. I don’t seek out Bloomcole content, just bump into it incidentally, but usually read all of it when I do because it’s entertaining. I use Voyager, which I have set to track cumulative vote scores by user.
He’s at -177 as of today. The next lowest person is -23.
He’s insane, but like a train wreck, I find myself unable to look away.
And yet you shill for Putin, one of the evilest people in the world. If you truly believe what you say in an altruistic manner, then you should start pointing your fingers up instead of sideways.
But we both know that’s not why your here is it?
A South African billionaire spent 300million to get Trump to win. An Australian media mogal has been using propaganda to brainwash Americans, and the world, for the last 30 years. All of this is being supported by a Russian dictator that has control over his puppet, not to mention his puppets in other countries.
Go on an tell me more about how this is only America fault.
Far right parties in Germany and France nearly took over their respective governments. America is just a bellwether of what is going to be commonplace in all developed liberal nations if we don’t start sincerely addressing the wealth inequality.
Fascism is a natural development in liberal democracies when too much wealth is distributed to the upper class. The upper class uses their wealth as political capital to maintain the status quo that benefits them the most. To counteract leftist movements they support the far right, and before you know it there are paramilitary groups out in the streets.
This is going to happen in every country that promotes free market capitalism, starting with the countries with the least amount of social safety nets and most tax breaks for the ultra wealthy.
Yes, it is class war, and populism is the cudgel that beats democracy.
Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege.
- Tommy Douglas
You, um, let them do it?
How so, you ask? A cultural acceptance of hero worship, rugged capitalism, and global dominion. A lack of adequate reflexivity. Yes, it’s cultural, which puts some atom of power in every resident’s hands and mouth.
Yes, it’s cultural, which puts some atom of power in every resident’s hands and mouth.
It’s not a culture war, that’s just the dressing. It’s a class war using nationalism and culture as a scapegoat.
There’s a reason why fascism is on a drastic rise across all western democracies. The monied class across all liberal democracies have acquired enough political capital to where they’ve essentially taken away all options but violence, another commodity they maintain a monopoly over for now.
I’m sure your country is has a growing reactionary party riding the wave of right winged populism washing over liberalism, what are you doing about it?
Sorry, bud, the cultural issues that led us here aren’t so much about your cultural civil war that is mostly just class war in disguise. It’s a both sides problem at the heart of the empire, the one where even the poor folks are okay with 800+ bases on foreign soil, etc.
An Australian media mogal
Fuck off. Not Australian.
Murdoch had to give up Australian citizenship to buy into US media.
He’s all yours, and you can keep the cunt.
I don’t think there was any “only” in the OC.
But the ball certainly is still in the american peoples court.
Yeah, sure, the ball is in our court. But we’re playing blindfolded against a gigantic prime Roger Federer who doesn’t care if he “accidentally” steps on some of us, and half of our side actually wants to see giant Roger Federer win for some reason.
I get it, empty apologies are meaningless. But posts complaining about said apologies and telling Americans “actually no, we see you all as a single mass of shit people that made your own shit bed and we want to see you sleep in it” is similarly unhelpful.
Roger Federer who doesn’t care if he “accidentally” steps on some of us
I know a lot of young Ukrainians, who moved to my country because of this fear. I can understand the fear of death, of everything being taken away. They are the nicest people, and their decision will forever haunt them.
As if those same strategies aren’t currently active in every other country in the world. They just spent more here and had a head start on the brainwashing.
I just feel as though decade long geopolitics is a little bit different than a back and forth ball toss.
But the ball certainly is still in the american peoples court.The best way to destroy an empire is from within.
They voted for him. For the second time.
It is their fault.
Did they, though? Or has a generational institution of gerrymandering and targeted voter suppression simply become insurmountable?
or it was the opposition party putting up a shitty worthless candidate that was never going to win.
because the democratic party is total delusional when it comes to understanding the issues American face and are concerned about. the republicans aren’t.
the republicans lie though. but most human beings would rather be lied to and listened to, than ignored and told to suck it up because they have it ‘so good’.
Gerrymandering has no impact on general elections though
You’re right, controlling how local governments elect representatives and spend money and disseminate media narratives has absolutely no outcome on general elections.
Totally.
Right. That’s why they do it.
Sure. Let’s go with that.
‘Americans are dumb sheep with no critical thinking abilities’ is surely a defence.
Do yourself a favor and google the terms “gerrymandering” and “voter suppression”. You clearly don’t have any idea what they are from your response.
Still doesn’t change the fact that a third of voters chose him and another third stayed home. Keep externalising the blame though.
Oh look, another brainless clapping seal happily engaging in tribalism and ignorant guilt by association!
You think you’re so much better while using the EXACT train of thought Republicans use, who support Trump.
Good job being exactly what you hate!
Rest of the world was ready to look over Trump’s win in 2016 but not anymore. He’s your democratically elected leader who got even more votes this time around.
Fuck the fuck off.
critical thinking skills typically are only present in a tiny minority of the population of any society or nation.
He lost the popular vote. Both times.
No, just the first and second times. He actually got more votes last year than Harris.
That still doesn’t defeat my point because it wasn’t over 50%. Even if every single American voted with the same percentages, it STILL would not be a majority of Americans that voted for him.
Thusly, to blame ALL Americans is nothing but ignorant guilt by association.
I know. But don’t say things that are just factually wrong in an argument like this. It gives your opponent (who isn’t me, by the way) ammunition.
All those that did not vote supported fascism. ‘All that is required by evil is that ordinary people do nothing.’
Millions of people did more than nothing. More people voted against Trump than for him.
Today I learned that 75 millions is larger than 77 millions.
Is that what they teach in American schools?
He won less than half. Of a small percentage who did vote.
Is that what you’ve been taught? Less than 50% means you can slander 100%? Fucking bigoted fool.
Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 and 2020 which is probably what they were thinking of. Maybe don’t assume someone is a moron when they’re technically correct but say it confusingly. We’re all lucky our brains work at all given all the bullshit we have to keep track of related to dictator cunt known as Trump.
You know most people didn’t vote for him, right?
Most people either voted for him or didn’t vote at all. It’s all the same to rest of the world. Fuck Americans.
Oh yeah? Come and fuck me then. You won’t. Coward.
Yeah, let’s all fuck this person.
Yeah! Let’s fuck 'em.
Cool so you like collective punishment? Fuck that Geneva convention?
I’m trans I barely get treated like a person and have my options severely limited. Don’t give me that shit about how every American is responsible when we tried to tell people and got ridiculed and called slurs for it and got rape threats. Kiss my ass.
Another trans person here. Wasn’t born here. Neither was my wife. I didn’t ask to be brought to this country as a child. I’d love to be able to leave.
I have spent my entire adult life voting in every single election and working toward making this a more bearable place for myself and others. A minority of this country is happy with what is happening. A minority.
A larger portion of Americans are actively doing what they can to push back, but fascists have had decades to enshrine themselves into every foundation of this country. It’s not a matter of protesting hard enough or voting hard enough. There is a lot of work to do and those of us who have been doing it the whole time still are.
This victim-blaming bullshit has got to stop.
Right there with you. Stay safe
I don’t think they are blaming all Americans they are just saying the rest of the world doesn’t care about individuals as it’s irrelevant when war comes. Don’t take it personally but you are the enemy to them, after the war we don’t associate innocenct civilians with the german war machine but during the war is different. You are basically an innocent civilian who never supported the rise of hitler in Nazi Germany right before ww2. Right now for them it’s about safety and survival they don’t have the time or the responsibility to care that it’s not all Americans.
Americans who didn’t vote for Trump are about as powerless as non-Americans who also didn’t vote for Trump. If you’re expecting them to commit crimes, go to jail, and lose everything they care about, then why can’t they expect people from other countries do the same thing? Or better yet, why don’t you immigrate and help vote for change after you get your citizenship? Why don’t you lobby your own leaders for tough sanctions? Vote people in who will stand up to Trump and his garbage brigade?
I didn’t even ask to be born. I didn’t ask to be born here. And I didn’t ask for any of the stuff that’s happening. So chill?
What you’re saying is simply wrong. The Americans still have plenty of opportunities to resist. You could organize a general strike and paralyze the country, for example.
Now you feel like many germans feel…
We can stop complaining, we can be chill. We can vote in people who will stand up to Trump and keep him away from us. But we can only keep him away from us. It’s up to the American people to keep him away from you because it’s not our business to stick our nose into your business. This isn’t even about us, it’s about you. Instead of telling us to chill you should be asking yourself why you’re so chill with it. Doing nothing is still going to lead to something and that something is only getting worse.
We don’t like what your country is doing but when it eventually gets resolved and there is a world left standing our lives will be fine. You will be the ones who have to continue putting up with this shit.
Yeah, we know. And we’re not chill. And we’re taking action. The people who are reading this comment are not your target audience. You’re preaching to the choir.
The target audience is not the activists who are already doing what we ask, yes we know, but you are missing that we are seeing a lot of posts disavowing any responsibility, which indicates a deep cultural flaw of individualism and American Exceptionalism, and yeah it bears repeating as the psychological resistance to that message is fierce.
I don’t think the person I replied to is interested in taking action, which is why I commented in the first place. People like him need to be told that there’s no sitting out this one. If you do nothing then it’s only going to get worse.
sorry, do you think the russians should vote out Putin too?
If they can vote him out, yes. If they can’t then I think they should forcibly remove him. It’s the Russian people who are suffering from his stupid war, not him.
So you basically think the russian state should collapse into revolution and anarchy?
Do you think the current Russian state is the best it can be for its citizens? Or even remotely beneficial to them?
I think Putin is in power and there is no opposition to him because he has systematically destroyed it.
And he won’t leave short of his own death or social collapse.
I don’t have any naivety about the state of the political landscape of Russia. Voting out Putin would be correct way to do things but more realistically he would need to be toppled for there to be change. But that’s because all non-violent avenues have been cut off. I don’t think waiting for his death is the answer because his death will also create a power vacuum and instability and most likely in that case he’ll just be replaced by another autocrat.
Bringing that point back to America, I think there’s still a chance for America to course correct without resorting to violence, but that requires the American people to start pressuring the administration right now. The more they wait the more they become like Russia, where eventually all the way to get rid of the autocrat without violence have been dismantled. And much like in Russia, waiting for Trump to die isn’t going to solve anything because the Republican party will just find someone to replace him.
Boo hoo. Grow a pair and take responsibility.
Why would people who had no choice about where we’re born and who have opposed MAGA from the beginning need to “take responsibility” for what’s happening right now? I don’t know what country you live in but I’m guessing you don’t take responsibility for everything its government does, and if you do, you’re crazy.
When they ask Russians what they think about their country bombing kindergartens, they say they aren’t into politics. That’s you.
People in my country go to the streets. They strike, they burn a few cars if needed. America just sinks lower and lower into a dystopian horror and people do less and less.
You’re making a lot of assumptions and lumping a lot of people together who don’t deserve it.
Yes I am. I’m not writing a thesis here lol.
It looks pretty bleak. I bet if midterms go bad for Trump, he will claim they are fraudulent and cancel the results. And nobody will do anything about it but complain online, the late night comedians will do they bits, a lot of videos with all caps about how someone DESTROYED trump in their speech. And that will be that. If he even loses lol, he might still win, a lot of people are cool with this. That’s how I see America. And most people I talk to here.
Yes I am
This is what MAGA people do.
People in my country
I notice that doesn’t say I. And the vast majority of people talking a big game wouldn’t dare do any of that shit in America, because our cops have guns and our prison system is so notorious for inmate rape that it’s a punchline.
If you absolutely would do that shit in America, buy a plane ticket since it’s so easy to get done.
Toxic masculinity. Nice.
y’all realize that all these posts do is echo divisional language, right?
like, it’s literally saying “you’re part of the problem because you live there”. the same could be said about literally anything.
Denmark’s ineptitude and unwillingness to fight Russia is the reason why they were allowed to invade Ukraine and they are responsible for the thousands of deaths of Ukrainians. Every citizen of Denmark has their hands stained in Ukrainian blood because of their inaction to force their government to intervene. it’s your fault that Putin is brazen enough to invade sovereign nations and you only attempt to garner sympathy when the US tries to do the same to you in Greenland.
see? not even difficult to twist words around and divide us. it’s all a mechanic to make us weaker, it’s actually exactly what Trump is doing by pulling the US out of agreements and support systems. they want to make us all weaker by dividing us.
don’t listen to users who use divisional language when it comes to world politics, it only serves to further the fascist agenda.
The entire thing is blaming the victim. As if people suffering under Trump are somehow complicit in their own suffering and they should just overthrow him violently.
It’s typical armchair revolutionary nonsense, people who post this crap and want to blame everyone else, which is very easy to do in an online echochamber full of ignorant people who are just venting their angst.
As a Canadian who is under direct economic and now physical threat by magapolitik: yes and no.
The entire thing is NOT victim blaming. If two thirds of the electorate supported the fascists, the remaining third is both victim and responsible, and the ONLY way to fix this problem at the moment is for that demographic to recognize it, despite the education system and popular culture suppressing nuance in thinking.
So often, the apologies or calls for sympathy are founded in a deep individualism and shallow civic duty. Yeah, it’s your neighbours who are the soil that grows fascism. You have to fix it at the root: education, civic development, secularism, humanism, community, collective action. You have to heal rifts of creed and work hard to eliminate racism, and realize that the endgame of capitalism is always oligarchy and imperialism.
So yeah ‘fix your shit’ applies when we feel like “service neighbours” for your absolution, as we are not going to make you feel better when we are stressed by your collective existential threats and you are showing a distinct lack of responsibility.
On the other hand I know of lots of folks who are already preparing to support refugees, particularly trans etc., so we are being practical here about the active victim situation, not just keyboarding.
The electoral college system in America means that a certain number of electors are assigned per state. Most states electors are assigned on a winner takes all basis. For instance even in deep red Texas he only got 56% of the vote but was assigned ALL Texas’s electors just like Harris received all California’s electors. Electors are assigned by state not by population so you could theoretically win with as little as 1/3 of the vote.
We cannot basically ever change this via normal political process because the Southern traitors would lose votes and amending our constitution requires overwhelming not majority support.
There are approx 338M people in the US. Approx 85 M didn’t get to vote because they were under 18 in November of 2024. Of the remaining 253M 77M voted for Trump 75 for Harris and 100M didn’t vote.
Many of those who didn’t vote lived in districts and states that were already decided in which those residents had no voice because of our broken system. A system that now endangers us and the world.
If you poll people the percentate that actually support Trump and his policies isn’t the percentage of the vote he received, 48%, its 39%
You said 2/3 but its a hell of a lot closer to a third.
You assert that if the missing 100 million showed up it would make no difference in the outcome, so they were not showing tacit support? I remain unconvinced.
No. I’m saying that many not all were effectively disenfranchised by a system that would effectively give their votes to the opposing side no matter how they voted. For example blue voters in Texas.
You asserted that American’s were collectively complicit because 2/3 voted for him. This isn’t true. 48% voted for him. Voter turnout was furthermore suppressed by a system in which blue voters in red districts/states have no hope of representation. The actual support for Trump is actually only 39% of Americans.
61% of us are along the ride.
No, I know you are trying to argue in good faith, but I asserted that 2/3 supported, which includes not voting, regardless of defeatism. If the vast majority voted in opposition but still failed, there would be much more impetus for electoral reform, for example.
Failure to actively oppose at the polls is tacit support, even if it’s negligent. Disenfranchised votes are worth struggle.
Failure to actively oppose at the polls is tacit support,
25% of the population were under 18 during the election they cannot be said to tacitly support trump.
22% of people voted directly for Harris they directly opposed trump.
This alone is 47% of the population! This alone disproves your 2/3 narrative!
30% of the pop by not voting did not cast a tacit vote for Trump. Few countries have 100% voter turnout in any free country. A sane mathematical treatment of the situation is to assume that a sufficiently large sample is representative OR to ask people.
If 48% of voters voted for Trump we assume 48% of those who were adults in 2024 are responsible or 36% or we can ask people if they support Trump and we get 39%.
Most in the US aren’t for our modern day nazis
2024 was the second highest voter turn out in history. Second to 2020. Trump lost the polular vote. You just dont understand what youre talking about.
After all votes were counted he won the popular vote by a small margin but bear in mind 100M literally didn’t vote. Apathy is as big an issue as evil.
I’m one of the ones who did vote against him but I live in Los Angeles. In LA County, 2.4 million voted for Harris, 1.2 million voted for Trump, and 1.9 million didn’t vote. (45 thousand voted for RFK, Stein or other fringe candidates.)
A million of those non-voters could have all voted one way, EITHER way, without changing the results. So what “tacit support” are you talking about?
The entirety of California’e electoral votes went to Harris. But the electoral college is unbalanced,
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/electoral-college-states-representation/
so our candidate got 9 fewer electoral votes than she would have if it were fair. And even if all 1.9 million Los Angeles non-voters had voted for her it wouldn’t have changed a thing.
Should they have voted anyway? Yes, if only because of the local elections and propositions they could have had a voice in.
And California is one of the easiest, most vote-supportive states, which mails a vote-by-mail ballot and supplemental information packets to every registered voter.
But if someone didn’t, I’m not going to ascribe some kind of blame or “tacit support” label to them instead of hearing their individual situation.
the solutions you are suggesting will take 50+ years to develop. and nobody is interested in investing them, democrat or republican. there is no political platform for any of that in the USA.
You basically are suggesting we be entirely different than we are. it’s not possible. everyone is going the opposite way. most ‘leftists’ in american are actively embracing racism just like the far right.
also you canadians have a lot of the same root problems as americans. cost of COL is through the roof, you refuse to reform immigration, and you are increasingly polarized, and deinvesting in helathcare and education. you’re just a decade or two behind. I lived in canada for 3 years. It was very much America in the 90s. things are better generally, but nobody is addressing any of the real problems and the citizen themselves don’t want to do it because it would be too painful.
I mean lecture every american all you want, it’s not going to change the facts on the ground. the notion of some sort of deep common humanism doesn’t exist anymore in our politics and it hasn’t since the 1960s.
Bullshit. A few years when the commitment is there and collective responsibility is widespread.
a few years nothing will change. the democrats don’t do anything, they just kick the can down the road and pretend it’s fine. all they are is more polite than the republicans. maybe you don’t remember recently history but Biden and Obama admins did nothign to address serious problems. they just threw a couple of bandaids on our bleeding wounds and called it a day.
This pessimism is annoyingly familiar to Canadians, but we usually express it with a hint of irony.
it’s not pessimism, it’s understanding how people work.
The funny thing about leftist/progressive agenda is… everyone is for it, until it impacts them personally. Everyone wants more housing, more immigration, more education… until its in their town and their tax bill goes up. Then all the sudden they are VERY opposed to these things.
My own very blue city just had lots of tax rates go up. All the sudden our very popular progressive major is getting a lot less popular… and her progressive plans to expand and fund new things is now being cut back…
weird how that works, right? it’s almost as if people don’t want the things they say they want…
everyone’s idealism disappears when the bills come due and the cold hard facts of finite resources and infinite demand slap them in the face.
Yeah, I came here to say something like this. The writer of the post has just as much power to effect change as the average American does. Why aren’t they doing something about it? Oh right, because they fucking can’t. This language serves no purpose but to attempt to divide and inflame.
Individualism and authoritarianism demands a hero comes along to bandaid all the problems. Don’t fall for it.
Civic responsibility doesn’t mean standing on a pile of bodies holding a rifle aloft.
well it makes the poster feel important and righteous and superior to all those evil bad people. it’s really what it’s about.
it’s a fork of jerking off your ego. which is like 99.9% of any political posts.
I mean, cmon. Every country can become like this, no people are special. Hating people for not instantly becoming martyrs by committing terrorism in their own country is a bit dumb.
We have to nudge them a bit, fund resistances, saboteurs, maybe an outside intervention. Civilians are just civilians.
This is how we get countries cut off from the world, who become eternal reprobates, and we never have good relations with them again.
“think about how you view other countries, for example Russia”
Okay, I do not at all in any way think about the average Russian citizen the way people on this fucking site seem to think about the average American citizen. The idea that I would demand those innocent people essentially commit suicide through armed conflict is demented, yet there’s no such qualms about Americans.
All that being said though, I have to agree, going to random communities and saying you’re sorry is useless. It only serves to make you feel slightly better and does nothing to actually help the situation, akin to wishing thoughts and prayers.
Oh look, a post which has no informational content and who’s only possible outcome is to create division amongst the civilian populations of two allied countries.
Oh look, it is posted by an account who has a perfectly normal comment history but a strange affinity for posting content which creates a comment section full of divisive conversations between:
- Greenland and US Citizens (This thread, Again here, )
- US Citizens (MAGA v Not, Same but using the Charlie Kirk angle, same but using the anti-vaxx angle)
- AI vs Anti-AI (Post)
- US Citizens vs The world (Tariffs Angle)
- Racial Tensions (Here)
I’ll post here what I’ve posted elsewhere with addition comments sprinkled in.
This is what bothers me the most about folks, usually from an EU country, telling Americans we should just oust our shithead president through national strikes or violence and complain that we aren’t doing anything. The US is huge, what works in smaller European countries is vastly more difficult and expensive to organize and execute in the US. Those tactics do work here, but mostly at the local and state level which is akin to how they work in most EU countries when you adjust for population and size. At this level there is just not much an individual or relatively small group can do. Even if my entire city and the surrounding area rose up together (which it wouldn’t since it’s politically mixed) it would have little to no impact. A million or two people just isn’t that much in a nation as large and diverse as the US. The entirety of California or Texas couldn’t appreciably move the needle in all reality and they are massive, wealthy states.
The US General Strike movement estimates that we would need just 3.5% of the US adult population to strike to see any results, that is over 10.5 million people, and they have less than half a million signed up. To put that in perspective, that’s more than the entire population of Greece, Austria, or Sweden needed to make an impact, and even well resourced and organized they are barely moving the needle due mostly to the sheer size of the country. None of those countries can get their entire population to agree on something though, so it’s not really surprising the US hasn’t been able to get that many people to agree either.
In addition, the risks are enormous to everyday people when there isn’t an organization to back their movement. I still need to eat, put a roof over mine and my families head, and generally exist in this world. I applaud those that have the means, drive, or mindset to just take direct action but the vast majority do not. Going out half cocked, guns blazing though also doesn’t accomplish anything and just gives more media ammo to the current regime to oppress rights further. Until we can find our MLK to lead a movement against this oppression though, it’s unlikely that resistance will accomplish much visibly.
I think it would be a fantastic idea for Europeans, and the rest of the world, to start actually considering what a violent, imperialist US means to their normal day-to-day and how they can best prepare to defend against it. I, and all those I choose to surround myself with, hate what our government is doing. We voted against it, give money and time to causes against it and to try to reduce harm where we can and help those impacted by it. Many of us would leave if we had the means to, but the reality is that leaving has its own risks, is surprisingly difficult and expensive, doesn’t guarantee where we end up will ultimately be better, and removes our ability to do anything here. Like most of life, reality is complex and messy, I just wish everyone could keep that in mind when condemning all Americans for the actions our government is taking.
That all said, Americans are doing something, not enough, and not quickly, but protests are nearly constant in various parts of the country. Congress is rebuking nearly all of the big budget cuts Trump wanted, and more right leaning lawmakers are starting to stand up against the regime. Again, it’s not enough, but it isn’t silence like is often asserted here and elsewhere.
In short, I am not my country, and while I fully accept that the world hates the US right now (and they should), personally hating every individual American and blaming us as specifically responsible is ignorant and inflammatory. It doesn’t help and just serves to depress and discourage action by those of us who do not support the actions of our government and are trying to help in the ways that we can.
The US is huge
Was it huge when there was a civil war, with less infrastructure? Was it huge on jan. 6?
During the Civil War we were less than half our current size. Maybe even a third the size. I can find maps that show our size but none that actual say what our land area was. I could calculate it, but I’m not. Also, we had about 10% of our current population.
So yea, we were quite a bit smaller back then.
the population was also far more rural 1/3 of the entire population were farmers.
now 1% of the population is in farming.
But what about their clapback?! You weren’t supposed to actually provide information to the contrary of their haughty and uninformed statement!!
Either way, I don’t know what counts as huge. Even back then we still stretched from Maine to Florida to Texas, which is over 2500 miles at its longest. That’s still pretty damn big. Still bigger than any country in Europe minus Russia.
I just wanted to give a comparison.
Was it still huge?
January 6th only took place because the sitting president told his supporters to storm the capitol and said he’d back them. There are Americans who are fighting what’s happening here and want to do more, but we are so disenfranchised disorganized that we really don’t have a lot of options other than getting ourselves killed or imprisoned without changing anything.
Democrats are equivalent to most center-right parties in Europe. They have historically and continue to pay lip-service to left-leaning causes while quietly backing whatever the fascists want. Those of us who want to change things have no locus of power behind which to organize.
And re: The Civil War, it was a much smaller country then, and each side in the conflict was backed by elites with power and organizational capacity.
Billionaires also footed the bill to organize and bus in the J6 insurrection crowd. There was also a bunch of planning to mitigate normal security measures. And it still didn’t work!
Are people really so out of touch that they think a few random people in Washington DC were able to try that on a whim?
“Hey guys just so you know, showing empathy is stupid virtue signaling. Remember when you catch yourself blaming Russians for Putin’s actions and realize it is wrong to do that? Actually you need to ignore that feeling – it’s justified. Blame all the Russians. Even though you feel utterly crushed and powerless right now, um, do something about it. Sure, that’s a billion times easier to say than both do and succeed at, but that’s your problem. Maybe try fucking yourself? I dunno just be better or something.”
the problem is if you do have empathy for people, everyone will hate you for it because it won’t be for the people they like in particular.
i have empathy for every american, but if i say that to other americans they tell me i’m a facist/racist/bigot for not wanting to kill and murder people who voted republican. the hatred is from both sides towards each other is insane and anyone who tries to rise above it is just accused of being on the ‘other side’.
and fwiw most of my threats come from progressive leftists, whom i vote for. they often hate their own supporters and wonder why more people aren’t progressive… because you drive them away with your hateful and angry rhetoric that you falsely being is ‘better’ than the angry and hateful rhetoric of ‘facists’ you so despise.
I don’t think that’s true.
trump supporters don’t think it’s true that trump is a racist facist either.
I don’t see why you would get downvoted here except if it’s by people who know they do exactly what you’re complaining about… I get where you’re coming from. Although I question your use of quotes on fascists. They are indeed fascists. Doesn’t mean they all deserve to die though.
that to lemmy users who send me violent hateful messages and replies for daring to have a mildly different political opinion than them.
lots and lots of users here are totally OK with violence against anyone they disagree with, and are 100% against it when it’s against the people they do agree with. Funny how that attitude works… it’s only ‘wrong’ if it’s against someone you don’t like.
Yeah. I think violence should be avoided at all costs, but there are some people alive right now who won’t respond to anything else. They’re definitely in the vast minority though.
Meh, most of rest of the world are also supporting this regime by still trading with the US, using their services, investing in their companies, and buying their debt. None of what’s happening would be possible without the world’s support.
Becasue we the world fucked ourselves. We became so dependent on America. We could not function without American tech and the citizens would revolt if we did something about it. Best case is Trump starts blackballing countries and tech not allowed there.
There are good people and bad people in every country. Yes, the US government is bad. Yes, the Russian government is bad. That does not mean every person in those countries are also bad.
There are people in Russia trying their best to resist Putin. People risk their lives doing that and people have died doing that.
There are also people here in the US doing their best to resist fascism. Here too, people have died doing that.
It is unreasonable to expect every American to oppose fascism, just like it is unreasonable to expect that of every Greenlander. Remember there is a small percentage of Greenlanders who do support Trump.
Opposing fascism is difficult, dangerous, and slow. It takes a long time for change to happen. Think about all the bad governments out there. I’m sure that for each one you can find resistance to them that has been around for a long time.
So if the situation was flipped, would you want us to make a post complaining about Greenlanders apologizing?
I think you’re focusing a bit to much on the last paragraph. In context of the first few paragraphs I think it’s clear that they don’t mean individual Americans are not doing enough, but instead the political opposition is not percieved as much. And I think assume you would agree the Democratic party as a whole is too complicit.
You are correct.
No I want to make a post about Canadians apologizing. I want the world to go back to normal.
Who has died resisting Trump, nobody.
Renee Nicole Good.
